A rather interesting thread.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?448573-Sussex-Security-Solutions-Ltd-T-A-Parking-Enforcement-Co

I also have received a communication from Sussex Security Solutions Ltd TA Parking Enforcement. The document is headed as " Notice to keeper" and purports to claim that a car that I am registered keeper of was parked in Lewes behind Waitrose.

"Parking Charge Details" makes interesting reading

they claim that a vehicle arrived at the area at 0:00:00 on 00/00/0000

and departed at 16:20.00 on a specific date and

there is a nice picture of an unidentified white car with a footer showing the date and 16:28:12 hrs

this seems rather odd as the table of information claims that the vehicle departed at ( by their own admissions) at 16:20:00 hrs

This document was sent to an old address of mine

and I only received it as the new occupier asked me to drop by the old address

and answer a question of how something worked in the kitchen.

Interestingly I own 3 white cars all VW's

and all in that area on the day in question,

one driven by me,

one by my wife and

one by my son.

So we have a picture of a white car with no distinguishable markings

on a double yellow line with two people standing by the drivers door neither recognisable.

We do not have a ratified contract nor any evidence that there has been a breach or a right to remedy that any fair contract would have to encompass, and yet Parking Enforcement believe that I am indebted to them for some reason.

Anyone have any views on this matter please ?

Thanks

You dont mention dates of the event and receipt of the NTK and these are critical for keeper liability.

As they have got a big chunk of the rest wrong they wont be able to claim you owe them anything anyway but it is better to have more than one reason should the matter go further.

Since the "we may recommend to our client that he take you to court" letters, sent mid-July, I've heard nothing.

Do please keep the new discussion on this thread as I'm very interested to see what happens to other people!

I believe they are refering to a date in July 2016 and yes I did receive, albeit by chance, a correspondance from them 10 days later. however I moved from the service address 2 days after the aledged infrignment and they have not been able to trace me yet. They wont as I am now living in France. The corespondance invited me to pay them a sum or notify who was driving a specifc but unidentifiable vehicle.

The situation is that at least two of my white cars where in the area on the day in question, and at the time they alledge, albeit with some errors. There were three drivers of two vehicles as we met behind the laura ashly store to exchange cars. so who drove what and where at what time? as yet I have seen no convincing evidence of any breach of contract or indeed any confirmation of who was driving what car.

It is a source of amsuement to me generally as I have spent a working life as contracts director of a large multi national company and have a good working knowledge of contract law. I also have a good working knowledge of the County Courts procedures having represented myself on a number of occasions as claimant and also plaintif.

I do not have a good knowledge of law on parking and trespass but will soon do so I expect.

The issue that concerns me here is that to most members of the public this is quite convincing retoric and can easily frightne some into paying money under conditions of what I see as threatening behaviour. The Unfiar condistions of contract will cover a lot of this I am sure and that is if participation in a contract can be established.

Anyone have any thoughts ?

The charity shop nearby told me they get on average 10 calls a day about tickets about that spot. I was a visitor to Lewes, I had no idea about the notorious parking situation. The last MP made some progress by banning clamping, I think.

I have just checked Lewes Council and Wealden Council planning applications against the site address that PE advise and there are no applications for signage or indeed anything else. Should I be looking elsewhere for applications ?

The site that PE claim is " Eastgate Wharf, Lewes,BN7 2AS

no,

you use that when they spend some money on a lawyer.

No planning permission for sigange and they are committing a criminal offence.

That means you cannot enter into a contract with them even if you wanted to so

they cant claim money due under a contract or for breach of contract as there can never be one.

Dear Erics brother ,

I have searched the Lewes District Council planning applications register as far back as 1995

under the name of the area " Eastgate Wharf" and also the post code,

nothing comes up at all except applications for signage from legitimate business's such as Laura Ashley etc.

I have read up on the planning portal and as usual there is some ambiguity in respect of this

I believe, however is it known if anyone has successfully defended

and action on the grounds of failure to gain planning approval ?

I totally agree that if a contract can not be established there can be no breach.

So I have ;

1. wrong address

2. No identification of a static vehicle

3. Clearly information on the NTK that can simply not be correct as they site my arrival time as 00hrs on 00 day of 0000 year ie the inception of time as we know it.

I have written a letter to them stating that I will not be making a payment, so will now just sit back and wait,

I will only consider the matter further if I receive a genuine CCS.

Thanks

I note that land owners permission is required as a prelude and I am sure that a PE operator will have that in place if they are contracted by the principle to carry on a business at the site.

RE: your last point.

A lot of these cases can be defended successfully because parking co's frequently have agreements only with the operator of a business on that site (e.g. a supermarket, leisure centre, etc), who are tenants or leaseholders, and not with the landowner.

Good point indeed Oddfellow. Thank you. If it gets to a point where this is important I guess its a trip to land registry for site ownership ?

Just to clarify, I am not a legal expert, and it's worth waiting around for the likes of EB, DX and SilverFox to comment.

However,

from the extensive reading of the threads on this forum,

it seems that you could go down the road of making a request to Parking Enforcement under the Civil Procedures Regulations (CPR), requiring them to provide you with certified copies of their contract with the landowner,

and their planning permission for the signage.

It seems to me that you are doing all the legwork, when a simple CPR request puts the ball in their court.

There may be a legal reason why this would not be appropriate, so wait for one of the experts to comment.

Hang in there!

Thank you sir

I will definitely be hanging in there, as their claim is so flawed in respect of timings and vehicles that it is pathetic in the extreme.

I have created your own threads and left a link in the other thread

dx

Dear Erics brother ,

 

I have searched the Lewes District Council planning applications register as far back as 1995

under the name of the area " Eastgate Wharf" and also the post code,

nothing comes up at all except applications for signage from legitimate business's such as Laura Ashley etc.

 

I have read up on the planning portal and as usual there is some ambiguity in respect of this

I believe, however is it known if anyone has successfully defended

and action on the grounds of failure to gain planning approval ?

 

I totally agree that if a contract can not be established there can be no breach.

 

So I have ;

 

1. wrong address

2. No identification of a static vehicle

3. Clearly information on the NTK that can simply not be correct as they site my arrival time as 00hrs on 00 day of 0000 year ie the inception of time as we know it.

 

I have written a letter to them stating that I will not be making a payment, so will now just sit back and wait,

I will only consider the matter further if I receive a genuine CCS.

 

Thanks

 

 

I note that land owners permission is required as a prelude and I am sure that a PE operator will have that in place if they are contracted by the principle to carry on a business at the site.

You shouldnt have bothered writing to them as they arent going to take any notice of anything you say. If you havent posted the letter yet bin it and wait for them to actually do somehting rather than just wave their willy about.

Hi EB. I wrote weeks ago as I firmly believe in being quite clear about matters. There will be no further communication from my side, I will just watch them waving their willy ( if it can be seen) about.

Thanks

Arrived this weekend a second notice to keeper, this time asserting that a notice was attached to my car at the time of the alleged parking infringement, it shows a white car with no identifying marks, two people at the drivers door and now does not identify an alleged time of arrival to site but does detail a time of parking, but the picture shown has a time on it 18 minutes after the alleged time of parking. it is 56 days since the alleged parking charge was incurred.

well, did they slap a ticket on the screen at the time? They may be having a second bite at the cherry and claiming they did. Well, that makes the earlier NTK an unlawful access to your DVLA data but telling lies is probably their only chance of getting a sniff at a claim. Obviously they cant magic up planning permission so keep that under your hat and let them waste their time and money for the moment.

No, no ticket slapped anywhere.

as said, they do tell lies so beware of the phantom ticket claim. To reiterate, they lose because of other grounds so dont sweat.

Have they not run out of time?

And of course which car is in the picture and more importantly who was driving when the car stopped and who was when the car departed !!

Thank you

they are hoping that a big lie wont be noticed.....

All quiet for a while and today I received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus via my post forward service.

Interesting as they have clearly now clocked onto the fact that the vehicle had a change of address to my business premises, they must have gone onto the DVLA register perhaps?. They don't know that my main residence is now in France though.

I am sure the letter is the normal drivel, it quotes the Beavis case, tells me that I am liable etc etc. If I don't pay now £160 they will recommend to their client that they may issue proceedings.

Still ignore ?

How was this addressed? If it was addressed to your business addy then they have broken the law by getting the keeper details again. Com-plain to the DVLA about this as they will have used misrepresentation to do so and are in breach of the KADOE licence. Then complain to the ICO about the DVLA letting them access your data withut any lawful reason.

as for the letter, have you not read any of the thousands of posts on this forum about DR+? If you had you wouldnt be asking about it as it is just rubbish and should always be ignored.

Yes they have clearly obtained the keeper details again since the last but one change. There has now been a subsequent change of keeper/address and also registration number.

and yes I have read several threads on DR+ it just amused me that the course of events is so predictable. I have and will totally ignore the matter unless something materially changes my view.

It is the predictability of the content in letter from DR+ that was so predictable.

Many thanks

Go after the DVLA access though, take it up with the DVLA first and then the ICO as the DVLA are also at fault for not asking them why they are accessing YOUR data