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    • They have defended the claim by saying that the job was of unsatisfactory standard and they had to call another carpenter to remedy. My husband has text messages about them losing the keys a second time and also an email. What do they hope to achieve??? Most importantly,  as far as I have seen online, now I need to wait for paperwork from the court, correct?
    • The Notice to Hirer does not comply with the protection of Freedoms Act 2012 Schedule  4 . This is before I ask if Europarks have sent you a copy of the PCN they sent to Arval along with a copy of the hire agreement et. if they haven't done that either you are totally in the clear and have nothing to worry about and nothing to pay. The PCN they have sent you is supposed to be paid by you according to the Act within 21 days. The chucklebuts have stated 28 days which is the time that motorists have to pay. Such a basic and simple thing . The Act came out in 2012 and still they cannot get it right which is very good news for you. Sadly there is no point in telling them- they won't accept it because they lose their chance to make any money out of you. they are hoping that by writing to you demanding money plus sending in their  unregulated debt collectors and sixth rate solicitors that you might be so frightened as to pay them money so that you can sleep at night. Don't be surprised if some of their letters are done in coloured crayons-that's the sort of  level of people you will be dealing with. Makes great bedding for the rabbits though. Euro tend not to be that litigious but while you can safely ignore the debt collectors just keep an eye out for a possible Letter of Claim. They are pretty rare but musn't be ignored. Let us know so that you can send a suitably snotty letter to them showing that you are not afraid of them and are happy to go to Court as you like winning.  
    • They did reply to my defence stating it would fail and enclosed copies of NOA, DN Term letter and account statements. All copies of T&C's that could be reconstructions and the IP address on there resolves to the town where MBNA offices are, not my location
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    • My defence was standard no paperwork:   1.The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 2. Paragraph 1 is noted. The Defendant has had a contractual relationship with MBNA Limited in the past. The Defendant does not recognise the reference number provided by the claimant within its particulars and has sought verification from the claimant who is yet to comply with requests for further information. 3. Paragraph 2 is denied. The Defendant maintains that a default notice was never received. The Claimant is put to strict proof to that a default notice was issued by MBNA Limited and received by the Defendant. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied. The Defendant is unaware of any legal assignment or Notice of Assignment allegedly served from either the Claimant or MBNA Limited. 5. On the 02/01/2023 the Defendant requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CCA 1974 Section 78 request. The claimant is yet to respond to this request. On the 19/05/2023 a CPR 31.14 request was sent to Kearns who is yet to respond. To date, 02/06/2023, no documentation has been received. The claimant remains in default of my section 78 request. 6. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of proof of assignment being sent/ agreement/ balance/ breach or termination requested by CPR 31.14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: (a) show how the Defendant entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974 (c) show how the claimant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.
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Excel/BW claimform - PCN Swansea SA1 2012


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Hello everyone. This is my first thread.

 

Today (17/08/16) I have received a letter from a company called BW Legal,

they are very popular name on this forum it seems!

 

In mid 2012 there was a fire at my home and my home insurance paid for my to live at a premier in for about 2 months while the house was repaired / renovated.

 

The hotel carpark was run by excel parking and was a pay and display.

 

It was about £9 ish per 24 hour Period and had to be paid in coins only.

One day i over slept a bit and I was about 30 mins outside of my 24 hour period.

 

Fair enough. based on the fact I had been parking there every single day for 30 or 40 days.

My vehicle was quite distinctive as it had a huge Angry bird on the dash.

 

I thought based on the fact I had already paid hundreds of pounds

and always had a ticket the attendant would give me A bit of time as it was the same guy everyday.

But obviously not.

 

I didn't pay the ticket as i think it's completely unfair and excessive to expect someone to pay £100 for 30 minutes without a ticket when I purchased back to back 24 hour tickets And renewed my ticket after coming down and finding the PCN.

 

Low and behold,

4 years later I have received a letter from BW Legal saying I owe them £154.

£100 for the initial parking ticket and £54 for their legal costs and if they don't receive this in 16 days they have been asked by their client to start legal proceedings.

 

This is the first letter I have got from anyone and I was quite surprised to get it so many years later.

 

What advice would people give at this stage?

 

Ignor? Send a debt denial letter? Any other advice?

 

Thanks in advance.

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sent the denial letter

 

read the letter properly I doubt it say their client has asked them to start court in 16days?

 

doesn't matter really

you'll probably get a claimform as 1000's have already

just make sure you defend all

and they'll give up I bet

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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As this is "mid-2012", it sounds like it is pre-POFA. The problem with that is that if you were there every day for 30 to 40 days, could you reasonably be expected to remember who was the driver, and therefore the keeper v driver dilemma might not hold up?

 

 

The experts will doubtless advise.

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They know nothing of the circumstance surrounding the event,

they have just taken a load of old paperwork out of the recycling bin and posted it out instead.

 

Pre POFA so a short letter saying that as the registered keeper of the vehicle in question you have no liability in this matter and you dont know who the driver was at the time.

 

They are sending out hundreds of these fishing letters in the hope some will pay up

and others drop themselves in it and make a claim possible.

 

Do not explain or justify yourself in any way,

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Thanks for the advice so far.

 

 

I will send them a short letter tomorrow just as you've said above.

 

 

I will post a draft of it on here before I send it just for people's opinions

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This is the letter i intend to send, if anyone has any suggestions on this i should add / take away please let me know, thanks

 

"18 August 2016,

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I am writing to you with regards to the letter I received from you with the above reference dated 12 August 2016.

 

Your letter makes reference to a parking charge issued over 4 years ago. As the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time I have no liability in the matter as I cannot recall who was driving at the time.

 

I have no intention of paying the money demanded by your client and any court proceedings will be vigorously defended.

 

Yours faithfully"

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and you dont know who the driver was at the time

not

as I cannot recall who was driving at the time.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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you must make the simple point that there is no keeper liability and you dont know who was driving at the time.

Anything else leaves it open to assumption and further letter tennis.

 

Ok no worries. So more like

 

"18 August 2016,

Dear Sir / Madam,

 

I am writing to you with regards to the letter I received from you with the above reference dated 12 August 2016.

 

Your letter makes reference to a parking chargeicon issued over 4 years ago. As the registered keeper of the vehicle in question at the time I have no liability in the matter and I do not know who was driving the vehicle at the time.

 

Yours faithfully"

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Taking advice i have shortened it to

 

"18 August 2016,

Sir / Madam,

I write with regards to a letter I received from you with the above reference dated 12 August 2016.

Your letter makes reference to a parking charge issued over 4 years ago. There is no registered keeper liability, therefore I have no liability in the matter and I do not know who was driving the vehicle at the time.

 

Yours faithfully"

 

I will post this off and update this thread if/when i hear anything back, which i suspect i will!

 

Thanks.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hello everyone!

 

I have received a letter from them today saying

 

"We refer to your letter dated 18/08/16 the contents of which have been duly noted.

 

We note from your correspondence that you state you were not the driver at the time of the PCN. As details of the driver had not been forthcoming to suggest otherwise our client in the absence of the drivers details reasonably presumes you with the driver and we refer your case to Elliot V Loake (1982)

 

We confirm that your position has been noted and we will now seek our clients instructions on initiating County Court proceedings.

 

Yours faithfully

BW Lwgal"

 

As we can see from the letter I sent them I didn't state I was not the drive I stated I don't know who was driving at the time. Is that worth replying to them or shall i ignor at this point? Thanks in advance!

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usual rubbish then:-)

 

you stated your case leave it there

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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usual rubbish then:-)

 

you stated your case leave it there

 

Ok, do you not think it may be of use to write back saying that I never state I wasn't the driver but that I do not know who was driving? Or is that working against me?

 

I'm also wondering if it's worth writing to them saying as this is pre pofa there is no keeper liability? Anyone have thoughts on them or shall I just leave it?

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no deal with those if/when it ever gets to the WS stage in a court claim.

letter tennis at this stage will change nothing.

 

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Ok I will wait till I here anything further and update. Thank you for the help so far. No doubt this forum saves people a lot of time and stress. Much obliged.

 

What is a WS stage? You will have to forgive me for being completely in the dark on this whole thing

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witness statement after allocation etc etc

IF it ever gets that far

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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In short,

BW cant do anything unless their client instructs them to and then they only do what they are paid to do.

 

Will excel be stupid enough to try their luck?

I doubt it as both they and BW know that Elliott v Loake is irrelevant to this matter

but like threatening a Norwich Pharmacal order to force you to name the driver

they think that by quoting these cases you will be so scared or impressed that you will now pay up.

 

Funny how when these things to get to court

they never ever quote the same case law they use in the threatograms.

 

likewise no point quoting the PoFA,

they know that it isnt applicable and there is no keeper liability,

 

that is why they use the shotgun approach to other case law.

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  • 3 months later...

slight update since then.

 

 

I received another letter from them in October saying that it was my last chance to settle before their client WILL instruct them to take legal action.

 

 

Haven't heard anything since, but if i do get some kind of court papers through i will be back in touch.

 

Thanks everyone.

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I instruct my dog to sit

if it does is another matter....................

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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How do they know what their client will do if they havent already been told?

Psychic powers?

 

 

BWL hope that their client takes that step as they get paid whether Excel win or lose.

Trev has lost a few of these more speculative claims on no keeper liability alone so he wont be in a hurry to throw more money at it.

 

slight update since then.

 

I received another letter from them in October saying that it was my last chance to settle before their client WILL instruct them to take legal action.

 

Haven't heard anything since, but if i do get some kind of court papers through i will be back in touch.

 

Thanks everyone.

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as post 13

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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