Hi, Hoping for some advice.

The driver pulled up on a road in Spinningfields Manchester to allow the passenger to get out, and put on the hazard warning lights.

There were double yellow lines, but not hashed up on to the pavement edge, as per the highway code 'no stopping'.

The driver and passenger had not seen any obvious other signage

2 weeks later and a £60 PCN was received by the registered owner.

A letter outlined on Money Saving Expert was sent asking for the companies right to pursue the claim

(as this was on the road, and not on 'private' land as such.)

a few weeks later a further letter was sent said the appeal had been rejected,

and the amount increased to £100 and just ignored the questions asked.

A further reply was sent asking for them to again answer the questions. No reply.

Today a letter from Gladstones, titled 'Letter Before Claim' was received and the amount has gone up again to £150.

Since the initial parking notice was issued we have returned to spinningfields (we don't live locally to it)

and took pictures of the notices, the yellow lines (which are actually very hard to see where we parked due to road resurfacing),

and have this as evidence should we need it.

Should I contact the land owners of Spinningfields and contest this with them instead of ES/Gladstones?

Should I just reply to Gladstones saying we are appealing the fine?

Anyway advice gratefully received.

Who was the original offence with?

If Gladstones have this, it is NOT a fine,

I'm sure the PCN was a 'parking' charge notice and NOT a 'penalty' charge notice.

Yes, it was a Parking Charge Notice. The original offence was with ES parking Enforcement.

DYL's mean nothing on private land

purely tarmac graffiti..

dx

Ignore Gladstones, rubbish tame solicitor bottom feeders working for the PPC. Are ES members of BPA? IF so use the POPLA number and appeal to them.

No,

Gladdys are the IPC in drag

so they are acting as hard men to impress their clients in the IPC.

To help you

we need to know what the first letter you got said,

when it arrived

and what you said in response

and when and what correspondence you have had since and when.

dates of all correspondence.

BTW, the double yellows dont mean no stopping,

they mean no parking at any time,

there is a big difference.

Incident date 4/4/16

1st letter received 9/4/16 (sent 6/4/16) saying Parking Charge Notice - stating "This charge relates to the period of parking specified above, the charge having been incurred for stopping/parking on an area where stopping is prohibited and liability for the same having been brought to the attention of the driver by clear signage in and around the site.The driver is liable to pay the sum of £100, however if payment is received within 14 dats a reduced amount of £60 will be accepted in full and final settlement.

1st Reply: Sent 18/4/16

" I am not ignoring your charge for an alleged parking infraction. As this is purely a charge (not a statutory penalty) issued under a purported contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company for the provision of their services? I require their contact details.

2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?

3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrates that you have their authority to both issue parking charges and litigate in your own name.

4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.

5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.

6. Please provide a copy of the signs that purportedly were on site which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion.

If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to those, so to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your alleged loss. In any case, the addition of any debt collector 'costs' is not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable."

2nd letter received 15/4/16

Appeal Rejected

Thank you for your appeal regarding the above detailed Parking Charge Notice. We have reviewed the case and considered the comments you have made. This appeal has been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by our operative. Our records show that your parking charge notice as correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in a way which breaches the Terms and Conditions of Parking.

We have decided to reject your appeal for the following reasons:

Photographic evidence shows your vehicle stopping/parking in and area where stopping is prohibited.

The signage on the site clearly states "no stopping at all" this area must be kept clear at all times.

Our appeals process is now concluded, you may now pick one of the following options:

1. Pay £60 by 09/05/16, or £100 by 23/5/16 -

2. Make an appeal to IAS

3. If you do nothing we will seek to recover the monies owed to use via our debt recovery procedures and may proceed with court action against you

(I have paraphrased the last 3 points, it also goes on to explain the IAS service.)

2nd Reply sent 10/5/16

"Following your letter stating that the appeal for this charge had been rejected , I was disappointed that you had not answered any of the questions that I required answering, so I will state again:

1. Who is the party that contracted with your company for the provision of their services? I require their contact details.

2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?

3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrates that you have their authority to both issue parking charges and litigate in your own name.

4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.

5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.

6. Please provide a copy of the signs that purportedly were on site which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion.

Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to those, so to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your alleged loss. In any case, the addition of any debt collector 'costs' is not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable."

3rd Letter received 24/5/16

Demand for payment of an unpaid parking charge notice -Balance due £125

ES Parking Enforcement LTD have written to you recently about the unpaid parking notice shown above. As payment has still not been received, further charges have been added to the outstanding balance. This is now a serious matter, you must not ignore this notice.

You now need to pay the amount of £125, please make sure your payment reaches us within 14 days of this notice. Failure to pay this charge may result in enforcement action which could include County Court proceedings and which may incur additional costs.

If we do not receive payment within 14 days of this notice further Debt recovery action will be taken to recover what you owe by passing the debt to a local debt recovery agency and further charges may be incurred which may result in court action."

(further blah blah about court judgements and bailiffs etc)

I didn't reply to this as I knew it wouldn't make any difference whatsoever.

4th letter received 11/7/16

Gladstones Solicitors - Letter Before Claim

We act on behalf of the claimant and we have been instructed to commence legal action against you to recover the amount due above (£150), as you have failed to settle the debts that are owing, or provide a valid reason for non-payment.

We understand that our client has written to you to request payment but the amounts are still outstanding.

The debts relate to parking charges (detailed above) for which you are liable. Full details of the charges have previously been provided to you within the praking charge notices and/or notices to Driver/keeper that have been served upon you. The claimant will rely on these documents in the forthcoming action against you.

We refer you to the Practise Direction for Pre-Action Conduct under the Civil Procedures Rules and in particular Paragraph 13-16 of the same which concerns the courts powers to impose sanctions for any failure to comply.

We now require you to pay the full amount within 14 days. Alternatively you should provide an acknowledgement of receipt of the letter and a full written response within 14 days. Your response should provide you full account of the circumstances that have led to the charges being imposed and should include confirmation as to who the driver(s) of the vehicle were at the time of each incident and a current address for service for each driver.

Unless a satisfactory response is provided, we are instructed to start proceedings against you without any further notice in order to recover the amounts due and costs associated with the recovery of them. The amount that is claimed may therefore increase in terms of costs and any interest that is recoverable."

(They then list a number of people who could be contacted for advice, solicitors, National Debtline, Citizens advice etc)

Hope that all makes sense. I just need to know how to proceed. Should I write to Gladstones, or ignore them?

Should I try and contact Spinningfields to try and get them to over turn it?

Thanks

you have a paper trail so there is nothing more you can do to that will make them decide what they will do one way or the other.

They ask about a valid reason for non-payment- well yes, you dont owe anything as you are not liable for any charge and they know that but hope you arent so shure of your position.

Also note that they say contact all sorts of people other than those who know about parking

Do you think I should reply or not to Gladstones, just to say I have no intention of paying, and I certainly wouldnt tell them who was driving as they suggest.

Also, do you think it's worth contacting the people who own Spinningfields?

You have already entertained them in letter tennis for far too long and in far too much detail

Dx

they want you to name the driver so they can sue the right person. As it stands they are onto a loser as they have no contract with you.

they have obviously decided to keep at this,

today we received a Claim form from the County Court Business Centre in Northampton (miles away from everyone involved).

Any advice?

I will obviously be replying to this, and sending a defence.

How much detail should the defence be in?

Should I submit a counter claim?

Will this result in us actually going to court, or will they rule based on my response?

I'm heavily pregnant and could do without this,

and the idea of travelling over to Northampton,

a 140 mile journey seems ridiculous.

doesn't work like that ginger

if they wish to proceed

it will be transferred to your local court

northants is just the bulk processing centre for all civil court claims

can you fill this in please

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***(1-Viewing)-nbsp

for the moment you can acknowledge the claim and that buys you another fortnight to submit a defence.

For the moment it only has to be skeleton arguments- bullet points if you prefer.

give us the exact location in Spinning fields so we can have a gander at the signage.

Chances are it says no stopping and that isnt a breach of contract,

prohibitive signage=trespass and that is nowt to do with parking co's, just the landowner.

They know this as they have lost many a claim on exactly the same matter before

but as they never get their collars felt for fraud they carry on in the hope you dont know better..

Thanks guys. Here are the answers

Name of the Claimant ? ES Parking Enforcement Limited - Preston

Date of issue –03/08/16

date of defence - 2-10-16

What is the claim for –

The claimant claims the sum of £152.30 for Parking Charges and indemnity costs if applicable including £2.30 interest

What is the value of the claim? £152.30 + £25 court fee + £50 legal costs = £227.30

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor

or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim ? Original Creditor

Were you aware the account had been assigned

– did you receive a Notice of Assignment? We received a letter before claim on 12th July 2016.

I have some pictures I went and took after the first 2 letters came from ES arrived which form part of the defence.

I could message them to you?

Is it okay to post them on here?

Do these companies keep an eye on these boards???

The road on which the penalty was received was Gartside St, MANCHESTER, M3 3AQ, directly outside of Itsu.

(if you look on google maps (I couldn't post a link) there is a white van infront of Itsu,

and the road markings are almost non existent, you can also see the poor signage!)

The vehicle stopped to allow a passenger out at the front of Itsu

(I was under the impression that you can stop to allow passengers out on a double yellow line?).

The road markings are very poor, in fact non existent directly in front of Itsu,

the signage from ES is very small and not obvious when driving down the road.

Turning off the A34 New Quay St there is no signage to say that you are entering private property

. No contract was entered into between the landowner and the driver.

convert things to PDF and you can upload them

just 2 point

its NOT a penalty

its a speculative invoice

there are no such things as DYL's on private land

merely tarmac graffiti with no legal standing whatsoever.

Okay, here are some photos which show the area, the poor markings, the tiny sign.

Any advice on what to focus on in the defence DX100 and Ericsbrother?

ES Parking Notice Gartside st.pdf

have you ack'd the claim [aos] on the mcol website yet?

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked

dx

I haven't done the form yet, wanted to know what to put before I went ahead and filled it in. I can't see a place on the paper form which says jurisdiction though.

No you fill in MCOL, it's online, not the paper one.

have you ack'd the claim [aos] on the mcol website yet?

 

 

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked

 

 

dx

look on the claimform

there is a website

you don't need to use the form at all.

then follow above

register and log in to MCOL

select the AOS box

then defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked

Okay, AOS done. any advice on defence?

not due till/by Friday 2nd by 4pm

you can do it online too

plenty of time to read around and for others to help

dx

signage too samll and too high to be read from a moving vehicle,

the first word is "warning" so it is not apparent that a contract is being offered.

The kerbside road markings, lampposts etc give every indication the road has been adopted by the local council

so check where the private road starts

it is not unknown for parking co's to have their signage covering the wrong land and thus no authority to make contracts..

I bet the signs are unintelligible as well so a close up is needed so we can read them.

Thanks for your input Ericsbrother. How could I find out where the private road starts? the sign was not seen by either driver or passenger when driving down the road.

Is there any point refering to BPA AOS as ES are an IPC member? The IPC Code of practise is much more wishy washy than BPA.