Hi,

I have just received a PCN from "Civil Enforcement" and I wondered if this template was a good one to send as an initial appeal to hope to put this to bed quickly. It seems pretty comprehensive and I thought I'd include it in it's entirety in case it can help others as a useful template/guide to the possible appeals. Is it good or are there any flaws? Thanks!:

[removed lengthy templates dx]

PCN.pdf

Here is my PCN notice. It is unclear whether it is a notice to driver or a notice to keeper. Is this a grounds for appeal? I see that POFA 2012 requires notices to keeper to:

- Advise that the driver is liable for the parking charge and the amount and that it has not been paid in full

- State whether a notice to the driver was given either to the driver or placed on the vehicle and if so to repeat the information in that notice about paying the parking charge and when

- Specify the outstanding amount of the parking charge and of the maximum additional costs they may seek to recover, and of the dispute resolution arrangements

- Invite the registered keeper to pay the outstanding parking charge or, if he was not the driver, to provide the name and address of the driver and to pass a copy of the notice on to that driver

so now I'm unsure of my first move....

Personally and IMO, I wouldn't even bother sending that, it's way too long, and they will simply ignore it anyway.

As well as the Beavis case, this is not applicable to you, stop reading their silly website.

You are forgetting that CEL are crooks and liars so a much simpler response is all that is needed.

"the notice to keeper ref:XXXX is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore no keeper liability has been formed. Now f*** off and dont bother me again you bunch of bandits."

In short, dont give them any credence they dont deserve. They will lie, produce false documents, false witness statements and various other things so I wouldnt even go along to POPLA if they write back to you. The only thing to remember si they always lose at court becuse they are known to every judge in the country and generally dont turn up as they would rather lose a few quid in costs then get sent to prison for contempt or perjury. They are really that bad. God knows why they are still members of any ATA.

You are forgetting that CEL are crooks and liars so a much simpler response is all that is needed.

"the notice to keeper ref:XXXX is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore no keeper liability has been formed. Now f*** off and dont bother me again you bunch of bandits."

Brilliant! Alternatively refer them to Arkell v Pressdram...

You are forgetting that CEL are crooks and liars so a much simpler response is all that is needed.

"the notice to keeper ref:XXXX is not compliant with the PoFA and therefore no keeper liability has been formed. Now f*** off and dont bother me again you bunch of bandits."

In short, dont give them any credence they dont deserve. They will lie, produce false documents, false witness statements and various other things so I wouldnt even go along to POPLA if they write back to you. The only thing to remember si they always lose at court becuse they are known to every judge in the country and generally dont turn up as they would rather lose a few quid in costs then get sent to prison for contempt or perjury. They are really that bad. God knows why they are still members of any ATA.

Thanks for the quick reply! In what way exactly is their notice non-compliant? Shall I outline why it is not compliant in my letter to them? I thought the longer letter may put them off so they pursue easier targets?

The longer letter won't put them off, they won't read it for a start.

Why would you want to tell them their puerile missive is non compliant?

Let them stew, as Ericsbrother said, should they wish to go down the legal route then they lose and you are reimbursed for your trouble.

In fact why would you want to enter the lethargic game of letter tennis?

Is it non compliant? Ericsbrother stated it was and so I'd like to be sure why so I know I'd have a case if they pursue me.

I just don't want to lose and have to pay. I don't want to have to defend myself in court either (although I will if I have to), I can imagine it'd be time consuming and stressful. I just want this to go away asap without paying the swine and need advice on the best way to do this. Is there a better template of what to write to achieve this? I'm not as confident as you both seem to be and the risk is that I'll accrue more fines and penalties if I try to fight it so I want to get this right.

Many thanks again for your help.

Have a look at PoFA, as ericsbrother says, there is no keeper liability, there is no need to keep yanking their chain and telling them exactly what is wrong with their missive, they're the ones in the business of conning folk out of money so they should know.

Court? Not a chance in hell.

And as for paying them anything, why would you?

The answer if you want to give them a response is in Erics response, two lines, that's all you need.

No signature, no identity, DON'T identify the driver OR yourself, or you'll walk straight into their trap and trip yourself up.

Hence the advice.

if you go into any detail they will think that you are unsure of your position and continue to harass you in the hope you will eventually yield and pay up. CEL have a nasty habit of sending out demands that go up to around £600 with their mysterious costs but nevre explain how they come to them.

I have been taken to court by these bandits and they lost even before the actual claim was heard because the judge had decided that they have a history of telling lies and making up costs so he struck out their claim without actually hearing it when he looked at certain points of it.

They could have continued if they wanted (they phoned me the next day and said they were going to in the hope I would pay them a couple of hundred quid to go away) but the judge said that they would have no chance of winning on any of their points and the claims for additional costs were unlawfully accrued so they werent going to get any of that money anyway.

The propblem is the parking companies would lose collectively around £300 million a year if they stuck to the rules and make it simple for people so they will persist and you have to accept it is a long game or just pay up to make it go away, the choice is yours.

We hope that you stick it out, generally they use rentathreat solicitors or dca's to make them look bigger than they are but this is again mostly bluff otherwise they would just go ahead and sue and actually win but they dont becasue they lose most defended claims.

There is no need to explain yourself, they know they are caught out trying it on so dont do or say anything that can be seen as either weakness or ignorance. They know that their letter isnt PoFA compliant, they dont pretend that it is but they tell lies to the DVLA to get the keeper details and no-one throws the in prison so they carry on.

Even their trade association encourages them to continue misapplying the law because they would all go out of business if the worse ones were called out and publicly brought to account becasue even the best ones break the law, hide evidence, lie to judges and fial to follow their own codes of practice..

Thanks very much for explaining things. So it won't weaken my case any if I don't go to POPLA?

If I send the letter with my address on it but no name or signature will that weaken my case any?

If not how about this letter I've drafted as per your suggestions? Shall I just send it as is with no "Yours sincerely" or whatever? Not signing it off seems weird....

Dear Sir,

The Parking Charge Notice ref: XXXX you sent to this address is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 and therefore no keeper liability has been formed.

The billable hours and expenses spent researching and dealing with this issue have already been logged and will continue to be so if harassment with this spurious penalty continues for a future invoice of costs incurred.

They have addressed you so you can leave the letter with just the typed name they wrote to. CEL have a lot of trouble with signatures ( you should read about them and the retired solicitor Swartz) so they are the only people I wouldnt sign off a letter to.

As for the bit about billable hours, this is an nonsensical as their claims, I dont know where you got that from but ditch it or make yourself look even more stupid than they do. I suggested a one liner, either use it or shortn it to leave out the foff part if you want to be polite but dont complicate things and risk dropping yourself in it by saying something that can be used against you..

Ok will do thanks. I think I'll just put "no further correspondence will be entered into" rather then your second sentence though!

why bother? They know they are cheats so I wouldnt waste the ink being polite.

Success! I sent the letter as you advised and just got their cancellation today. Brilliant! Many, many thanks, it feels good to have told them where to stick it and have justice prevail.

Hello there.

That's great news, well done to you and the people who advised you.

I'll change your thread title.

HB

well done and good of you to come back and tell us. Every time someone does that it helps us to help others as we can see what quickly works and what needs more time and patience.