Hello.

I am involved in a long running dispute with British Gas over standing charges. I wanted to see if anyone can clarify the position on what can be done by them to enforce payment.

The situation we have is that we have only one gas appliance, a gas fire, that it never used as it is boxed in by stuff, in a very cluttered front room. I cannot remember the last time it was used.

British Gas insist that they are obliged to levy standing charges even when we never use gas.

They have also seen fit to send a debt collection company to visit me.

I should mention that I am a vulnerable customer insofar as I suffered a stroke 3 years ago

and my ability to earn has been affected by this.

I have explained all this to British Gas several times and they won't budge.

The current bill for these charges is around £100.

Is there anything I can do to get these people off my back?

I have retained the supply as a standby for years

but I think it's time to have the supply disconnected once and for all and put an end to all this grief.

Any advice would be very welcome. Thanks.

Would you be able to let them in to read the meter ?..

As long as you have a gas meter installed, british gas will charge you the standing charge, whilst they are your supplier

Few questions

1. is this a standard meter and you get a bill or a pre payment meter?

2. have you considered having the meter removed if you dont use gas?

3. have you considered moving to a supplier with no standing charge? (easy to check with comparison sites)

Hi, yes they have read the meter and agreed that I have not used any gas, as there is no estimated use on any bill they produce. The sticking point is these wretched charges they insist on adding and I wanted to know what, if anything, I can do about them. Thanks.

Yes it's a standard meter and like I said, I only kept the supply just in case of any electricity problems or loss. I wasn't aware that there were companies that didn't make standing charges. British Gas have always cracked on that they are obliged to make these charges by law, so clearly that is not the case. Thank you for that information, I can now use that fact as leverage against them.

I would also advise not to even consider using a gas fire if it hasnt been used in years until it has been serviced and tested if that last use was more than 12 months ago, safety first!

Hi, yes they have read the meter and agreed that I have not used any gas, as there is no estimated use on any bill they produce. The sticking point is these wretched charges they insist on adding and I wanted to know what, if anything, I can do about them. Thanks.

Standing charges are a con on the British Public so fight it.

Assuming that you had a no standing charge account before and they had unilaterally changed your tariff structure without your agreement or knowledge fight it.

Standard Licence conditions SLC 22 A states ( you can get this off the Ofgem web site:-

Condition 22A. Unit Rate and Standing Charge requirements

22A.1 The licensee must only:

(a) offer to supply a Domestic Customer on the basis of a Domestic Supply Contract which complies with standard condition 22A; and

(b) supply a Domestic Customer on the basis of a Domestic Supply Contract or a Deemed Contract which complies with standard condition 22A.

22A.2 In respect of supplying electricity to a Domestic Customer under a Deemed Contract or Domestic Supply Contract, the licensee must ensure that all Charges for Supply Activities are incorporated within:

(a) where the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a NonTime of Use Tariff:

(i) a single Standing Charge; and/or

(ii) a single Unit Rate; and

(b) where the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a Time of Use Tariff:

(i) a single Standing Charge; and/or

(ii) Time of Use Rates.

22A.3 In relation to any Domestic Supply Contract and any Deemed Contract the licensee must ensure that:

(a) unless the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a Time of Use Tariff, the Charges for the Supply of Electricity:

(i) include a single Standing Charge;

(ii) include a single Unit Rate; and

(iii) do not include any other Unit Rate or Unit Rates;

(b) where the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a Time of Use Tariff, the Charges for the Supply of Electricity:

(i) include a single Standing Charge;

(ii) include Time of Use Rates; and

(iii) do not include any other Unit Rate or Unit Rates;

© without prejudice to the Tariff Comparison Rate, when the licensee or any Representative displays or communicates the Charges for the Supply of Electricity in any form each of the following are separately identified from each other and any other charges:

(i) a Standing Charge;

(ii) the Unit Rate or, where applicable, Time of Use Rates.

Note the and/or . There is nothing stopping companies offering kWH unit tariff only. They lie to customers.

point 2 SLC 23.3 states

Notification of increase in Charges for the Supply of Electricity and other unilateral variations

23.3 If, in accordance with the terms of a Domestic Supply Contract with a Domestic Customer, the licensee: (a) increases the Charges for the Supply of Electricity to a Domestic Premises (including by making any reduction in the amount of a Discount that is applied to a Unit Rate or Standing Charge); or (b) unilaterally varies any other term of the contract in any other way that is to the disadvantage of the Domestic Customer ("Disadvantageous Unilateral Variation"),

the licensee must give Notice of that increase in the Charges for the Supply of Electricity or Disadvantageous Unilateral Variation to the Domestic Customer in accordance with paragraph 23.4. 23.3A Paragraph 23.3(a) does not apply where the licensee increases the Charges for the Supply of Electricity to a Domestic Premises (including by making any reduction in the amount of a Discount that is applied to a Unit Rate or Standing Charge) by:

(a) a mutual variation made pursuant to standard condition 23A; (b) a unilateral variation made pursuant to standard condition 22D; or

© any circumstances whereby a Domestic Customer becomes subject to the Relevant Cheapest Evergreen Tariff or the duration of a Fixed Term Supply Contract is extended for a further fixed term period in accordance with standard condition 22C.

23.3B Paragraph 23.3(b) does not apply:

(a) in any circumstances whereby a Domestic Customer becomes subject to the Relevant Cheapest Evergreen Tariff or the duration of a Fixed Term Supply Contract is extended for a further fixed term period in accordance with standard condition 22C; or

(b) where the licensee is making a Disadvantageous Unilateral Variation by a unilateral variation made pursuant to standard condition 22D.

23.4 The Notice referred to in paragraph 23.3 must:

(a) be given at least 30 days in advance of the date on which the variation has effect;

(b) inform the Domestic Customer that he may end the Domestic Supply Contract if the variation is unacceptable to him by changing his Electricity Supplier;

© inform the Domestic Customer where he may obtain impartial advice and information about changing his Electricity Supplier;

(d) inform the Domestic Customer that where he has any Outstanding Charges, his Electricity Supplier may be able to prevent a Proposed Supply Transfer; and

(e) explain the effect of paragraph 23.6.

If the did not comply with these reject the charges and fight, it

Go to Ofgem site look into their fines to energy companies for the very same thing.

Point 3

Sending debit collectors in a genuine dispute is harassment. Tell them to go **** off.

Write to the energy company quote section 2 and 3 of the Protection of Harassment 1997 that their "course of conduct" amount's to harassment which is a criminal and civil offence.

They are trying to bully you, hold you ground , energy companies are just gangsters in disguise.

Come back to me if you are still unsure

Please bear in mind no domestic customer ever paid standing charges , it was a business rate only and Ofgem ( who are not fit for purpose) are to blame for been conned by energy companies lies.

Stevie

Sorry meant to add on the issue of harassment, have a look at a court of appeal case against British Gas Trading Ltd in 2009

see link http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2009/46.html

Thus its also case law about harassment.

Stevie

Standing charges are what they are

Just because you do not use the appliance is not a excuse

It would of been in terms of business when you chose them as a supplier

Why not CHANGE TO A ZERO STANDING CHARGE SUPPLIER

I object to the notion that standing charges in domestic situation are legit.

They are a con on the British People and the standard licence conditions allow for non standing charge tariffs, but when you are quoted such a tariff the uplift the kWH rate to cover the £100 + a year the are trying to fleece customers off.

Its time customer challenge such naive views with the energy companies.

My recommendation is dispute it , don't pay it and then the have to take you to court to win the argument.

This also occurs as noted by the CMA in their shocking recent report on ECO 7 Tariff's .

Proper and free competition is what customers want.

Energy companies are the law breakers.

Stevie

Standing charges are what they are

Just because you do not use the appliance is not a excuse

It would of been in terms of business when you chose them as a supplier

 

Why not CHANGE TO A ZERO STANDING CHARGE SUPPLIER

Thank you all very much and thank you Stevie for some very useful information.

I have emailed British Gas. It's not the fact that they are making these charges so much as the aggressive way they have been trying to squeeze me to pay them. I have very limited income and simply cannot afford the £100.

I have said in the email that if it is their decision to apply these charges in the first place as not every energy supplier does, then it follows that it is also their decision to waive the charges in certain situations, such as hardship. I have really had enough and I said as much and I have told them that if they insist on pursuing this, I shall make it my business to give them as much bad publicity as I can.

I have also suggested that they go after the people who deserve it and not pick on vulnerable customers. I shall be interested to hear what they have to say.

I shall keep you posted and thanks again for all the help.

Again I list below the law Pursuant to the Utilities Act 2000 / standard licence condition. Please read it .

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/27/contents

Note in the standard licence conditions ( SLC) the And /or repeated on several occasion's where its a time of day ( ECO & or Similar) tariff or you pay one rate regardless of time of day.

The discretion is in the law already. But they do not tell you this .

Please start by asking forcibly what is the standing charge for in "domestic " tariffs. Gather the evidence against them from different sources.

I could give you 6 different answers from various energy companies many of them law serial breakers. It's a con simple.

Also I refer you to the conditions of Contract SLC 22.5 again below, they must provide a maintenance schedule and indicate the number of visits. I bet you do not have this.

So they energy companies are breaking the law are in the wrong and they know this. So fight them You have my support.

Tariff SLC 22A

Condition 22A. Unit Rate and Standing Charge requirements

22A.1 The licensee must only:

(a) offer to supply a Domestic Customer on the basis of a Domestic Supply Contract which complies with standard condition 22A; and

(b) supply a Domestic Customer on the basis of a Domestic Supply Contract or a Deemed Contract which complies with standard condition 22A.

22A.2 In respect of supplying electricity to a Domestic Customer under a Deemed Contract or Domestic Supply Contract, the licensee must ensure that all Charges for Supply Activities are incorporated within:

(a) where the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a NonTime of Use Tariff:

(i) a single Standing Charge; and/or

(ii) a single Unit Rate; and

(b) where the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a Time of Use Tariff:

(i) a single Standing Charge; and/or

(ii) Time of Use Rates.

22A.3 In relation to any Domestic Supply Contract and any Deemed Contract the licensee must ensure that:

(a) unless the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a Time of Use Tariff, the Charges for the Supply of Electricity:

(i) include a single Standing Charge;

(ii) include a single Unit Rate; and

(iii) do not include any other Unit Rate or Unit Rates;

(b) where the Domestic Supply Contract or Deemed Contract is for a Time of Use Tariff, the Charges for the Supply of Electricity:

(i) include a single Standing Charge;

(ii) include Time of Use Rates; and

(iii) do not include any other Unit Rate or Unit Rates;

© without prejudice to the Tariff Comparison Rate, when the licensee or any Representative displays or communicates the Charges for the Supply of Electricity in any form each of the following are separately identified from each other and any other charges:

(i) a Standing Charge;

(ii) the Unit Rate or, where applicable, Time of Use Rates.

SLC 22.5 Information to be provided in contract/ terms and conditions.

22.5 A Domestic Supply Contract or a Deemed Contract with a Domestic Customer entered into or negotiated on or after the day after the day on which the Electricity and Gas (Internal Markets) Regulations 2011 are made must include:

(a) the identity and address of the licensee;

(b) the services provided, including any maintenance services provided, and any service quality levels that are to be met;

© if a connection is required, when that connection will take place;

(d) the means by which up to date information on all applicable tariffs and maintenance charges may be obtained;

(e) any conditions for renewal of the Domestic Supply Contract;

(f) any compensation and refund arrangements which apply if contracted quality service levels are not met, including inaccurate and delayed billing; and

(g) information concerning the Domestic Customer’s rights as regards the means of dispute settlement available to them in the event of a dispute with the licensee including how dispute resolution procedures can be initiated.

Go around every supplier they will give you different answers because it is not a justifiable charge and I challenge anybody with reference to domestic contract( Please Note the words) to justify such charges.

In the first instance they have repudiated the contract by not meeting their obligations on maintenance . So you have a genuine dispute to start from.

They only leaves them the option of suing you. The will not do this for £100.00 but the need to prove the comply with the law in the first instance. Many do not.

I am here is you need to come back

Stevie

Thank you again Stevie.

I had a call from British Gas this afternoon. I have arranged to have the meter removed. The lady I spoke to was very polite and helpful. She said she would arrange with her manager to have all outstanding charges written off. She actually said, "This situation has gone on for far too long"! I asked for everything to be put in writing so we'll see.

Thank you again to everyone.

If you can confirm when all promised has happened OldDebt and we will mark your thread as resolved...well done.

Regards

Andy

Thanks Andy, will do.

I'm glad this has moved towards a conclusion for you, and just wish I'd seen your thread earlier.

In addition to what Stevie has said, if no gas has ever been used, then provided you're not on a fixed contract then standing charges aren't applicable anyway. When a deemed contract exists (ie when a supplier is the supplier of a property and you move in and on their standard rates etc) there is no contract until such time as the supply is used. This is covered in The Gas Act and the Utilities Act.

Just thought I'd add this for anyone who might be in a similar situation in the future and need this advice

At 12:50 of this http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03s645z, a BG customer using no gas had his £100 SC costs waived.

At 14:20 of the same, the bloke from Consumer Futures thinks guidance on deemed contracts says you shouldn't be charged SC for no energy use.

At 16:20, the MD of Ebico says switch to them if you don't use energy but want a supply as they don't levy standing charge.

If I'd were in your situation, I'd get someone to move in and switch to Ebico for gas (that way, the transfer can't be blocked due to outstanding debt). Once done, you can put the Equigas account in your name 26 days later.

It will cost £500+ to get your gas supply reconnected so DON'T have your meter removed.

Your options regarding British gas are limited. You could put in a complaint and then take it to Ombudsman services and point out the above BBC radio 4 money box episode. You must do this within 12 months of your complaint to BG.

Alternative is to pay the bill and the use money claim online (if you don't live in Scotland) to take BG to the small claims court. Put in a basic claim saying your not obliged to pay SC when you don't consume in the hope that BG will not contest the case. You get court fee remission if your on certain benefits. I'm pretty sure all suppliers can contractually shaft their customers over standing charges.

In my experience (of debt collection based on estimated use) energy companies threaten you but don't follow court action but will bully you with debt collectors and put a mark on your credit file. They won't take you to court so you won't be able to defend.