Hi, I am in need of a bit of help with this nightmare situation I am in at the moment. Briefly explained I was in the midst of a court case with a customer who was saying we were liable for something that started before we took them on. We filed a defence and waited and was told we would receive more paperwork which never materialised, after several months and ringing the court to check but being reassured it was ok nothing materialised.

Long story short I went on holiday and received a call that a HCEO officer visited and left a letter. This was a shock because as far as I was concerned the company was still waiting for the hearing date. The letter was given to one of the directors of another company in the same building. When I received the letter it said they were escalating the debt to enforcement stage 2 and that the cost was £3291.29. From what I have gathered this is very high considering the original debt of £2104.00 and that this was the first I had heard of anything. I have been told that I have should have received at least something asking for payment of the debt first, followed by a notice of enforcement and the writ which I still haven't received so I don't think any of their fees are valid.

We spoke to the HCEO who was very reasonable and told him we were taking it back to court and got a stay of execution and set aside of judgement but at the hearing we didn't really get anywhere so we were back in the same position. We also spoke to the main office for the HCEO and told them the whole story, unfortunately they weren't as helpful and just told us we would have received all the missing documents and they were only required to send them first class post when I asked for a tracking number as proof. I then contacted the HCEO and agreed to make a payment plan for the remaining money, I offered to pay £400.00 then (it was the 13th of the month) then £400 a month after on the 15th or next working day of the month. I was told to email in to an address and also ask for a breakdown of costs so I could see them and raise any problems with them.

I sent the e-mail in with my proposal for the 15th of each month and asked for the breakdown of costs also stating that the fees were high, that i had only received (from someone non related to the business too) the letter of escalation to stage 1 with no prior correspondence or contact and have no writ and that I have spoken to them and they couldn't provide me with proof that any of these were ever sent.

After a few weeks I received a text from the HCEO saying they had received a payment of 400.00 and could they confirm that was going to be ongoing. I then said I had sent the proposal in and had received nothing back, and was told they have a backlog and just carry on with the payments.

A few days ago I have got a letter back saying they have agreed to consider my proposal on there officers recomendations. However they have put the next payment due is on the 13th and every month thereafter, I asked for the 15th for the reason that thats when payment comes in and what was actually in the proposal. They have also said the balance is now £3675.82 with daily interest being added after the £400 payment. That means somehow without any further visits etc they have managed to get £4075.82 from a £2104 debt without me still seeing the writ which is obviously ridiculous and I have heard nothing about it going up since the letter. I have also been given a standing order form to complete for them. They have also said they have put the proposal to their client and as you can probably guess they have sent no breakdown of costs as requested and obviously not read my proposal correctly.

I am in need of advice because obviously I need to call or write soon but I have no experience in dealing with anything like this and think they are trying to take me for a ride and to be honest I begrudge paying anything over the debt as I have had no writ or any other paperwork or visits and my requests for the breakdown of costs has been ignored. I want to know the best way of dealing with this as I just want it over with, with as the minimum fuss as possible but without being taken for a ride. The changing the dates for payment and the fees that I think should not be valid has really frustrated me. I'm rambling now but I am grateful for any help with this stressful situation and if anyone needs to know anything else please let me know.

You can get a copy of the judgement here - http://www.trustonline.org.uk/

Than you for the reply however the issue is more with the fees and dealing with the HCEO and with them moving the goalposts already as I already know what the original debt was but i'm being taken for a ride with these fees etc. I've had a bit of advice already but looks like my option was to have to take things back to court and get a variation but I'm not in the best place for dealing with things like court etc so wanted to try and sort it without having to go down that route.

Do you work from business premises or home?

Is it possible you can name the the HCEo Company?

You should have received a Notice of Enforcement from the HCEO first - did you receive this? If not have you confirmed the address including postcode everything was sent to? This would incur a charge of £90.

If no response received then a visit to your premises would be arranged - this attracts a charge of £228 +7.5% of any debt remaining over £1000 . Ironically even if an agreement has been reached to make payment then the Writ commands an Officer to visit you to Take Control of Goods which could be removed to satisfy the debt should you fail to maintain the agreed payments. This classed as the First Enforcement Stage. If you do breach the agreement or not agree a payment proposal then you then move to the Second Enforcement Stage which attracts a fee of £594. As you can see the figures add up quite quickly.

Have you asked for a breakdown of what they have charged & on what date(s) they have done it. It sounds as if they may be claiming they have taken Control of Goods with a view to selling them.

As for making payments you will need to ensure these are made in clear funds by the agreed date to ensure payment hits the account by the agreed date. This usually means you may have to pay up to a week in advance of the date - depending on payment method. Failure to pay by even just 1 day will trigger any further enforcement.

What reason have they given you for refusing your request for payment 2 days later. This sounds like intransigence to me in order to garner further fees. With this in mind & to prevent further enforcement action & costs then you need to apply for a Stay of Execution and part of your grounds for doing so would be their intransigence particulalrly as you have made a substantial payment already. If they are arguing about the size of payments then a Variation Order may be a possibility - as you have a Ltd Co then this may well be refused and in any case does not preven enforcement action & charges on its own. As you have already found out there are some continuing costs until the debt is paid in full.

It was the business premises but while this started without our knowledge we were shrinking the operation down so there's pretty much not much there anymore as new businesses have taken over the majority of the place.

Yes it was the sheriffs office, like I said in my post I didn't receive anything until a note when i returned from holiday stating it was escalated to enforcement stage2 and yes they confirmed the address but said that they didn't have any proof of postage or tracking as they're not required to do so but without all the first parts and they can't prove it I don't think they have sent anything tbh, I see the fees move up quite quickly but when the first I heard of it was already at enforcement stage 2 it is a bit of a joke, and yes I have asked for breakdown of fees etc but this was also ignored after writing to them.

My problem with the agreed date is my proposal stated the 15th and although they said they are fine with my proposal they obviously didn't read it properly by putting the 13th ongoing on there but I can imagine them being a nightmare about changing it, this mixed with the ridiculous fees when they still haven't even provided me with the writ is ridiculous

If you are getting the run around from the Sherrif's Office then an email to one of their Directors listing your concerns may be in order. Contact Chris Badger via [email protected]

I have found in the past he will listen rather than turn you down out of hand.

If you are getting the run around from the Sherrif's Office then an email to one of their Directors listing your concerns may be in order. Contact Chris Badger via [email protected]

 

I have found in the past he will listen rather than turn you down out of hand.

I would go with the advice from PT.

I have to be honest and say that out of all the HCE companies that I have been in contact with over the years (to enlist help for debtors) I have always found the Sheriffs Office to be the most accomodating .They seem to be unique in that they WILL and DO listen, I really do not see them digging their heels in regarding a change of date if it would prove beneficial to all parties.

I noted you had posted elsewhere and it was suggested that by merely submitting an n245 for variation to payment would remove the fees to the bailiff, I am sorry but....that information is incorrect, you will not see the bailiff fees disappear, the best you can hope for, is the Judge hearing the n245 application will order a detailed assessment of the fees being charged. You can of course make your own application for a detailed assessment of the said fees however,...WARNING, not to be taken lightly... if you fail to convince the court there has been 'overcharging' you could be facing a massive bill for costs from the other side.

Thank you for bringing the subject of Detailed Assessment up WD. It could be a point worth pursuing particularly if the HCEO is not forthcoming with a simple request asking for a breakdown in the fees charged & if that were to happen then I cannot see costs being awarded against the OP. If however the OP does gain the breakdown then it should explain what charge was made & when & if any other costs were involved. They will also need to prove the visits were made. It appears to me that what you have been charged is in contradiction to the "standard" fees permitted and were any extras not only allowed but are they reasonable for the work involved. For instance is the HCEO claiming to have a Controlled Goods Agreement or claiming a Sale Fee - if so then there must be paperwork to back it all up.

Whatever happens do not act in haste as I'm sure we can help.

Thank you for bringing the subject of Detailed Assessment up WD. It could be a point worth pursuing particularly if the HCEO is not forthcoming with a simple request asking for a breakdown in the fees charged & if that were to happen then I cannot see costs being awarded against the OP. If however the OP does gain the breakdown then it should explain what charge was made & when & if any other costs were involved. They will also need to prove the visits were made. It appears to me that what you have been charged is in contradiction to the "standard" fees permitted and were any extras not only allowed but are they reasonable for the work involved. For instance is the HCEO claiming to have a Controlled Goods Agreement or claiming a Sale Fee - if so then there must be paperwork to back it all up.

 

Whatever happens do not act in haste as I'm sure we can help.

Thank you PT, it was not my intention to raise and discuss (in depth) the subject of detailed assessment which is why I lumped costs and disbursements under the heading of 'fees', there is of course a line between the two.

My main concern was to address the misinformation the OP was given to the fact that, by submitting an n245 for variation to payments it would remove all the bailiff fees/costs, this is utter rubbish and the fees/costs WILL NOT disappear in the process.

Moving the date of the payment arrangement should not be an issue at all. However, the figures you have stated do not make sense so it would be wise to email the Director as suggested by ploddertom.