Hi everyone,

Just need a bit of advice about re-claiming money back from LA/bailiffs.

I have recently been visited by Jacobs and they got £422 out of me

.They turned up at 6am and woke the whole neighbourhood up, by nearly knocking down my door.

I am absolutely furious about this,

not only did they have no grounds to do this

- they also committed other offences (that i have just found out)

The story goes...

I got a bailiff letter out of the blue saying enforcement action was imminent. - thought it was a joke

I checked with NCC and it was indeed a live case.

I explained that I knew nothing about this and have had no correspondence,

they told me to send in a TE9 which I duly did

. Tried calling LA and got no joy

OOT WS was rejected and bailiffs sent another letter saying i had 7 days

. Called bailiff and explained my situation - didnt want to know.

I said I was seeking further legal advice.

on 24th October they turned up and clamped my car

- could not call anyone as b4 7am

- had money taken out of me as I needed my car for work.

Also the original debt was for £187 and they took control of a £3000+ car there by abusing regulation 4 and para 66. of taking control of goods guidelines

66. Enforcement agents should take all reasonable steps to satisfy themselves that the value of the goods taken into control to cover the sum outstanding is proportional to the value of the debt and fees owed

I moved to my new address in feb 14 and the PCN was issued in nov 14, therefore I did not get NTO or any correspondence as DVLA still had previous address.

My main issue is that i have been taken to court without my knowledge and had a summary judgement b4 i knew anything about it

- surely this contravenes article 6?

My right to a fair trial?

my question is this.

They came on 24th Sept

- is there anyway I can get my money back or have any legal recourse?

what is the time limit for filing an N244.

It has taken me a while to read up on this subject and find your forum

So you didn't inform the dvla of your new address for your licence

nor upon ownership address change for the car?

Can't see there is anything you can do

Esp as the te9 was rejected?

Bailiff fees of £75 notice of enforcement

Then after 7 days the £235 seem correct too

Dx

Have dvla fined you yet for failure to notify of change of address etc? Id imagine that will be next if you have brought that to their attention.

F the only asset available to them at the time was the car, then no, not an excessive levy at all. Not only that, assets are assessed at between 10%-40% for auction values. So your £3000 car on a valuation would be £300-£1200.

As DX states, the fees are correct but if they tried to charge sale fee, you could have questioned that, but it appears they didn't.

Also, you tried to explain the situation to the EA's, bit quite rightly, they were not interested. EA's ar not there to dispute the debt with you. You have/had other opportunities for that.

Thanks for your responses, however I still have difficulty in accepting that i can be taken to court without my knowledge. Whatever or however it happened, I did not get an NTO or any correspondence - therefore I did not have the privilege of accepting / denying or defending the claim.

As I am new to the law system I did not know the processes or intracacies or how to defend myself. By the time i knew about it the debt was £187, and to get a DJ to look at the case was £150 - therefore I was stuffed either way. Just a cursory look into the law tells me a basic right is that of "a fair trial" something that I have been denied.

My main question is this, do I have any legal recourse now... Can I submit an N244 now and how do I go about doing it?

You failed to inform those that you legally should that you had moved

Pers I'd not wave my arms around too much

Else the dvla might find out and then you'll get more fines.

Others might care to comment

But as far as I can see

The council and the bailliff

Have not done anything wrong.

It appears to be squarely upon your shoulders this happened

You have of course checked the org pcn was correct?

Dx

Firstly, you haven't been taken to court. The only court involvement was a rubber-stamping process at Northampton County Court, which is a bulk process done by office staff. There's no court case.

Regarding your right to a fair trial, this argument has been raised over and over, right up to the House of Lords. The powers that be say the appeals system is your mechanism to defend yourself. If you forfeit it by keeping your car registered to an address you don't live at, then sure, that's your fault, but nevertheless, you haven't had the opportunity to present any sort of defence. For this reason, I think you may have a chance of winning an N244 application.

I would have liked to have seen what you said on your TE7/TE9 - it's a pity you didn't get to post here for advice before you sent it off.

See if someone called Bailiff Advice post here with advice - she will know better than me what your odds are. I don't think it's a dead loss, as some other posters seem to.

All I will say is that if you appeal this and the dvla find out, you may find yourself maybe winning and getting back your £'s, but then landed with a £1000 fine from dvla for failure to notify.

This, essentially, like it or not, is your fault for not changing the registered address of your car. The dvla os only required to send the nto to the address of the rk. I cant see the judge even entertaining an n244 on the grounds that you have put forward.

All I will say is that if you appeal this and the dvla find out, you may find yourself maybe winning and getting back your £'s, but then landed with a £1000 fine from dvla for failure to notify.

 

This, essentially, like it or not, is your fault for not changing the registered address of your car. The dvla os only required to send the nto to the address of the rk. I cant see the judge even entertaining an n244 on the grounds that you have put forward.

And that Grumpy is the conundrum for the OP they win and lose.

The OP is entitled to defend himself. He has had no documents served to him. That's grounds for contesting. We all know the fault lies with him, but the facts are the facts - he's had no documents.

Hi everyone,

 

Just need a bit of advice about re-claiming money back from LA/bailiffs. I have recently been visited by Jacobs and they got £422 out of me

 

The story goes...

I got a bailiff letter out of the blue saying enforcement action was imminent. - thought it was a joke. I checked with NCC and it was indeed a live case. I explained that I knew nothing about this and have had no correspondence, they told me to send in a TE9 which I duly did.

 

OOT WS was rejected and bailiffs sent another letter saying i had 7 days

 

On 24th October they turned up and clamped my car

- could not call anyone as b4 7am

- had money taken out of me as I needed my car for work.

 

I moved to my new address in feb 14 and the PCN was issued in nov 14, therefore I did not get NTO or any correspondence as DVLA still had previous address.

 

My main issue is that i have been taken to court without my knowledge and had a summary judgement b4 i knew anything about it

- surely this contravenes article 6? My right to a fair trial?

 

What is the time limit for filing an N244.

When did you update your records at DVLA? If you have only just recently updated your records please do not worry. I do not know of a single case where DVLA prosecute in such cases.

Your OOT was rejected. What date was the rejection? Did you receive a copy of the local authorities response to your OOT?

On the matter of the N244, the good news is that there is NO TIME LIMIT in which to file the N244. You will however need to outline a reason why you are submitting the N244 late. There is a court fee of £50 (or £155 if you want a personal hearing) but I will only ever suggest an N244 if I consider that the chances of it being accepted are high. I cannot make such a comment without knowing a little more background and in particular, more info on what you provided on your TE9.

The problem that you will have though is that if your application is accepted, it is not easy to get the bailiff fees refunded. The local authority always refund the amount of the PCN (if London issued, this will be £202) and they will try to tell you to contact the bailiffs for a refund. In fact, the refund should come from the council.

PS: You mentioned that you consider that you have not had a fair trial. In fact, the Out of Time witness statement procedure is your opportunity for a fair trail. Where you did make an error is that when the OOT was rejected, you should have submitted the N244 within the 14 day period.

The OP is entitled to defend himself. He has had no documents served to him. That's grounds for contesting. We all know the fault lies with him, but the facts are the facts - he's had no documents.

There is more. If the OP had not received the Notice to Owner then he has been deprived of two very important stages.

Firstly, he has been denied the opportunity to pay the penalty at the reduced rate.

Secondly, he has been deprived of his legal right to appeal the PCN. This is why the regulations allow for an Out of Time witness statement. I have assisted with thousands of OOT's over the past few years and a very high percentage have been accepted. The reason for this being that the forms have been completed correctly. On average I receive 2 to 3 enquiries every day from people who have completed the forms themselves....many times using information gleaned from the internet....and whose applications have been rejected. In every case the forms have been badly completed with no reasons given etc. This is not helped by the wording on the TE7 and TE9.

Section 75 of the Civil Procedure Rules is being overhauled and I have submitted many suggestions. It's a waiting game at the moment.

The op was offered the opportunity to pay at a reduced rate. is it the dvla fault that the rk did not inform of a change of address? No its the rk. Failure to notify of change of circumstances could apply, fine maximum £1000

Did I read right in th op that the oot was rejected by the ea? If so your oot was submitted to the wrong people. Also claiming your seeking legal advice will not stop enforcement.

On rights to a fair trial and the so called rubber stamping at TEC Northampton.

If every case had to go through seperate magistrates courts then the whole system would grind to a halt, therefore a central system was put in place to deal with a specific. They have the authority under law to do so.

A fair trial is offered in the way going to court if you dispute the fine. Again if the dvla records are out of date due to rk not updating them as required in law, and all letters go to the old address will not be accepted as grounds for winding the clock back. ITS THE RK RESPONISBILITY

On clamping a car of 3k for 400ish fine.

This is not seen to be excessive as it is the only asset that is available.

A fair trial is offered in the way going to court if you dispute the fine. Again if the dvla records are out of date due to rk not updating them as required in law, and all letters go to the old address will not be accepted as grounds for winding the clock back. ITS THE RK RESPONISBILITY

With decriminalised parking, you can't go to court, and you haven't been fined. You have been issued a Penalty Charge which established a civil debt and when a Notice to Owner is issued, the person named on it becomes a debtor. There is no need (and indeed no mechanism) for a court to issue a fine or hear a case - the debt is already established.

As regards fault, that's not in dispute, but despite the fact that it is the OP who caused the process to fail, he is nevertheless entitled to defend himself. Yes, it's his fault - so be it - if the Council want to collect the debt they have to serve notices on him, and they haven't done so. The fact that it is his fault does not change that.

 

As regards fault, that's not in dispute, but despite the fact that it is the OP who caused the process to fail, he is nevertheless entitled to defend himself. Yes, it's his fault - so be it - if the Council want to collect the debt they have to serve notices on him, and they haven't done so. The fact that it is his fault does not change that.

I could not have put it better myself. Well done.

have to agree Jamberson and BA, after all a similar scenario could befall an innocent who bought a car in the interim between a PCN and council chasing, details of new keeper being on DVLA Database when they take action.