I recieved a new MAN today saying I have to start a new course on wednesday for 3 hours for next 6 weeks

I am on e.s.a wrag group this is really stressing me out as I have no idea what this entails,

Its the lenght of the course thats getting to me the most I have had to sit in this place is an hour

I asked when I spoke for more info on this so called course but the advisor didnt have any information on it - or didn't provide any with the MAN I received today.

Am I right in thinking I can refuse to do this course as this did not provide any information as to what will be happening on this course - what i am expected to do etc...

all it says is ;- Steps to excellence (other) no other information about it - don't know if this is even suitable for me

any advice would be greatly appreciated

thanks

I know my situation is different as i am in the ESA support group

I was under the impression you are excused all work focussed activity if on ESA (WRAG) as you are excused through medical chits??

Have they changed the rules again??

I didn't realise it wasn't madatory to attend these activities - they just say turn up or lose ya money

I wonder if we can get confirmation on this through the necessary regulations and not guess work

From .Gov

Work-related activity group

You must go to regular interviews with an adviser who can help with things like job goals and improving your skills.

But that still does not answer the question such as compulsory work activity

Hello there.

We need some of the forum regulars to turn up, they will know what to do. Please bear with us until they're able to get here. If they don't arrive soon, I'll send a couple of SOSs for you.

HB

ESA claimants who are in the WRAG can be mandated to do work related activity if they have been referred to the Work Programme. You cannot be mandated to look for or accept a job, undertake compulsory unpaid work experience, or seek or accept medical treatment. So at first glance I would say that the WP provider is within its rights to mandate that you attend a skills training course.

However, there are some important qualifiers to this. According to the guidance supplied by the DWP to WP providers, anything you are mandated to do must be "reasonable in your circumstances" - no CV courses if you already have an acceptable CV, no literacy training if you don't have any problems reading or writing, and so on. Providers are also required, when mandating an activity, to explain clearly what is involved. It does not sound like the provider has done so in your case.

In my opinion, the first thing to do would be to explain to the provider that they have not met their obligations under the rules laid down by the DWP, noting that they have failed to explain what it is you're expected to do. I would also point out that unless and until they tell you what is involved in this course and why it would benefit you, it's not possible to determine whether or not the activity is "reasonable in your circumstances." Note that "your circumstances" include any limitations imposed on you by your health condition.

More information here.

Thanks for the heads up antone

No problem

The Work Programme for ESA claimants is a tricky area, and I get the feeling that many providers really don't understand the rules they're required to follow.

Am I right in thinking I can refuse to do this course as this did not provide any information as to what will be happening on this course - what i am expected to do etc...

If you refuse to participate in this mandated activity, you will get sanctioned for your efforts. Activities are only optional for ESA Support Group claimants, and even then, some of them have had to fight inappropriate sanctions after refusing a MAN.

To add to what antone has already said, you have the right to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration of the activity. This may delay the activity or they may provide more information that you can use in appealing against the activity. See section 48 of Chapter 3a of the Work Programme provider guidance.

rang my advisor today to rquest information about this course and enquire about the suitability it would be for me given my health conditions - she said she didnt really know anything about this course as her manager had sourced the funding for it its called steps to excellence ran by the pacific institute have no idea how this will benefit me - more like just cause me stress and anxiety :mad2:

Hrmmm: http://www.pacificinstitute.co.uk/solutions/steps/

Blurb from another site:

Steps To Excellence For Personal Success, as developed by the Pacific Institute, is learning for individuals. It is a developmental programme with the reputation of being a powerful tool for improving people’s lives. It gives participants the opportunity to take a fresh look at their lives, enables them to see how much they are truly capable of achieving and offers tools to make it happen.

Its guiding principle is that people have an unlimited capacity for growth and creativity and can adapt to change. The course looks at how our minds work, which thought patterns make people more successful than others and how we learn to think more effectively.

The programme translates scientific jargon into easily understood language and illustrates the principles with examples that people can relate to their own lives.

STEPS has been implemented with success in a variety of settings. It has been particularly effective in helping long-term unemployed people develop motivation and a self-perpetuating spiral of building a positive sense of self and producing positive results.

There is your opening for a Mandatory Reconsideration of this "activity"

do i ask the advisor for a mandatory reconsideration - or not turn up and ask the dwp when they ask for a reason to sanction me ??

thanks again

The M.R. goes to the provider in question. Put it in writing and post it to the manager responsible for the adviser. Be prepared for the fact that you may have to attend this activity as fauilure to do so without following correct proccedure could result in a sanction (will try to post more later).

Not sure if you have the same course I am on but it sounds similar.

My course lasts six weeks and involves a 3 hour workshop each week.

Course I have attended so far are called week 1"Positive thinking", week 2 "Affirmation" and yet to expeirience what delight course 3,4,5,6 entails.

Essentially it is amateur physiology taught by a advisor who by his own admission had only read the notes for the course a few hours before the workshop started citing this as an example of his own positive thinking and how it can change our lives.

Week 1, one guy started shaking saying he couldn't cope with the workshop and had to be lead out,1 girl started crying saying finding it difficult to understand and 4 people did not attend and the advisor took great glee in telling us they would all be sanctioned and then proceeded to present the course.

This positive new age thinking bull crap is damaging in more ways than one for people with low self esteem, depression and so on according to leading psychologists, a quick google confirms this.

What with this brain washing and psychologists being posted at every JCP they should rename it Department of Work and Psychology.

STEPS to Excellence is built around the core concepts of The Pacific Institute’s knowledge base. It is delivered in a group setting with a qualified facilitator who helps participants to co-create their learning through interactive discussions, personal reflection time, the use of DVD bursts and activities utilising a wide variety of learning styles. The programme has been implemented with success in a variety of settings and has been particularly effective in:

helping long-term unemployed people develop the motivation and self-belief to complete other training and find jobs.

equipping parents with better parenting skills.

enabling those being made redundant to develop a new future for themselves.

use in prisons to reduce recidivism and aid re-assimilation in the community in business settings.

helping employees gain the confidence to deal with change, improve their working relationships with colleagues and take more accountability for the impact of their own behaviour on the working culture of the organisation.

improving relationships between teachers and parents and fostering increased parental involvement in school life.

strengthening grassroots change initiatives in community regeneration projects along with a renewed sense of possibility and community; enhancing participation in and ownership of local initiatives.

The STEPS concept provides a common language for articulating a vision of a better future and offers a proven approach to making the vision a reality.

http://effectivesolutionstraining.co.uk/steps-to-excellence/

STEPS to Excellence

Another brain washing new age workshop , they will be pimping religion next.

Get with it people

We all have to have this "Can Do" atitude now according to Herr Smith

Morality and statute, now there is a thought??

Well IBS does think of himself as a Demagogue

I've done various courses at my provider for the past few months and some have actually been enjoyable.

I was in the same position, Anxious, shaking, sweating etc... And 100% dreading it. But if i can take one thing away from them it's that it's helped me to start socialising again instead of sat at home doing nothing and gradually i've become more comfortable with it.

It's not easy, far from it but small steps eh? It also helps that my advisor trys to push me out of my comfort zone with job oppurtunities etc... but when i say no, he drops it. I appreciate that.

The one thing i will say to be wary of is that the majority of these courses seem to be C.V preperation, Interview skills, job search etc.... under disguise and by a different name.

As long as you know what you can and cannot be made to do then you should be fine. Try it, It will be difficult at first but you may find yourself like me and enjoying the socialising part of it without paying attention to what it's actually about.

Though I'm very glad Fisco has found these courses helpful, it has to be said that any mental health professional would state categorically that any 'treatment' not carried out by or at least supervised by someone properly qualified in psychology is potentially dangerous, even for someone without any prior issues. Whoever is leading the course at the very least needs to be able to identify participants who are experiencing negative effects so that they can get proper help. Reading the course notes a few hours beforehand is simply not sufficient!

I'm speaking from experience here, I am qualified in psychology (though not as a practising psychologist, had to withdraw from the doctorate course due to health issues) and this is the first thing potential clinicians are taught alongside advice that even mild distress whilst carrying out some of the exercises should be taken as a potential warning not to continue without qualified help. Whilst there is nothing intrinsically wrong with a non-clinician presenting such a course, they must have sufficient training to appreciate the risks and how to deal with them.

I wasn't talking about any course in particular or any that should be carried out by a health care professional as i would outright refuse to take part in those. If i need to attend something to improve or help me cope with the anxiety, depression etc... then it should be suggested by and arranged by my gp. CBT, Counselling etc...

I meant the courses in general. Skills coaching, Courses they claim to help you with your confidence, self esteem etc... but which are really a cover for interview techniques and job search.

hi all,

after completing the course - 6 weeks of hell, which most i had already covered in cbt theraphy ,

today I got my xmas preset off people plus ( the new name they go under )

a 12 week slow track course /?? slow track to what i have no idea as there are no details with it

attendance is mon, tue, wed 10 - 3

seemingly it will support with future employment prospects -

i cannot see me attending this course - i am so stressed now i feel like telling them to shove the whole lot and there money up there arse :evil:

I have travelled the road you are on and can only say don't let the (insert expletive) grind you down, they have given up on providing real tailored help and are now concentrating on wringing the last bit of profit by pushing these workshops that are laughable in content but more sinister is the message they convey.

Everyone on benefits have low self esteem, poor diets, unable to organise simple tasks such as catching a bus, are embarrassments for friends, family and the wider community, spend all day watching jerry springer, unhealthy,obese, and so on.

I know it is a pain to attend but you do not have to participate in any of the stupid tasks, such as introduce yourself to the person next to you and give them a compliment, build a bridge out spaghetti and marshmallows, just say I do not feel comfortable and decline the offer, I did this for every task and while I felt peer pressured to join in by the others I stuck to my guns and amused myself by countering every point the advisor was trying to make.

I can say - receiving this letter before xmas has ruined the holidays,

I am so stressed about this - preety much 3 full days - if i could actualy manage to do that i would have a bloody job

I am now fed up of the pushiing and shoving these people do - it feels like bullying,

I hae not slept and feel like going into the office and smashig the place up :mad2:

Please avoid going down the route of physical violence (either towards personnel or property). It does no one any good and generally makes the situation worse.

What you should be doing is demanding a mandatory reconsideration of the activity on the grounds that it is unsuitable for your needs and circumstances. The fact that they have failed to provide any details of what is involved counts in your favour: If the adviser doesn't know what this activity involves, then how can he/she decide it is suitable for any ESA claimant.