Hi all

I mistakenly cancelled my DD for membership at Xercise4Less one month early meaning I missed the final months payment of £10. I received letters from Harlands demanding £35, I intended to pay but I was away at the time so I forgot. Then £60 which I disputed as being unfair.

This was passed over to CRS who added their own charges taking the total up to £126.49 for an initial £10 missed payment. Again I sent CRS an email saying that I disuputed the charges and again offering to pay the £10.

I received this long letter today, the bit about organised crime was quite amusing:

Further to your email of 23rd August 2015, we apologise for the delay in our reply.

 

Initially please be advised that this email is the first correspondence that Credit Resolution Services has received and we believe that the previous offers and disputes you refer to were sent to a different division of the Harlands Group.

 

We note that you have not accepted Harlands’ explanation that the charges were applied correctly on the basis that such charges were outlined in the terms of your agreement and as such should like to offer our own response to this dispute.

 

It is our position that all charges applied to this balance are to cover actual and necessary costs and thus are not penalties. Lord Dunedin set out in Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd vs New Garage & Motor Co Ltd (1914) that:

 

“It is no obstacle..blah bah”

 

The above applies of the charges of £25 applied by Harlands as the costs involved vary depending on a great number of circumstances and these are usually too numerous to count. As such the directors have added all of the costs relating to breach of contract over a fixed period and divided by the number of defaulters in that time to reach an average cost of £25.00. This also in regards to our own collection fees of £66.50. We believe, therefore, that these charges do not constitute a penalty and are thus fully enforceable.

 

Secondly, the former regulating body, the Office of Fair Trading, reviewed our organisation, including the contracts we recommend and charges associated with then as part of an investigation of the entire leisure industry and raised no concerns regarding these fees. The results of the OFTs Investigation can be found online and you yourself can verify this if you wish.

 

Thirdly, the Office of Fair Trading and their successors have both issued guidance on how such charges may be applied. Our charges comply with both sets of guidance and we refuse to accept that not one, but two organisations appointed by the government to ensure business act correctly and fairly would advise organisations on when they may apply unlawful charges.

 

Fourth, we have enforced these fees in court on numerous occasions and no judge has yet deemed these fees to be unlawful or unenforceable.

 

Finally, we would point out that as we do not buy debts, all of the membership fees still go to the club. As such our only source of income is the fees you claim to be unlawful (illegal). If you follow the implications of your claim through to their conclusion you will see that you are actually claiming us to be a criminal organisation and yet no criminal proceedings have ever been brought against us or any member of staff within our organisation for what is essentially organised crime.

 

For some reason, however, if you still believe that you know better than us (who deal almost exclusively with these contracts every day), the former and current regulating bodies (the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Conduct Authority), each of the district judges we have ever come across and the police, then please report us

Any advice? I'm getting phone calls and texts from them most days now.

Thanks

Dan

They have enforced these fess in court?! What a load of BS!... Check out their case they tried recently through Zinc! They never do court and that is why!!

Woah! What letter did you send them? They have really really pushed it out there!

For some reason, however, if you still believe that you know better than us (who deal almost exclusively with these contracts every day), the former and current regulating bodies (the Office of Fair Trading and the Financial Conduct Authority), each of the district judges we have ever come across and the police, then please report us

I want Slick to step in... I think this needs a little bit of thought as its not a response I have seen before.

Hi TheHoob and welcome to CAG

They never cease to AMAZE me !!

Harlands and CRS operate from the same office, yet they pretend they are 2 unconnected entities. What rubbish.

They do love to write long letters - however, that does not make them right.

Can you post a copy of what you wrote to Harlands, which prompted to reply as they have.

Ignore all calls and texts for now.

so they simply got out of their tree because the OP wrong called the charges illegal

which is a criminal matter, rather than the correct 'unlawful' tag [civil] , which is what the OFT/FCA called them.

and ofcourse now the FSA carry that flag

quite funny really

calling their staff criminals...whatever next...

they'll be teling you that you'll be zinc'd next...opps that's another desk in the same office too

but that blokes got a diff coloured skirt on from the rest of 'em:lol:

so they simply got out of their tree because the OP wrong called the charges illegal

which is a criminal matter, rather than the correct 'unlawful' tag [civil] , which is what the OFT/FCA called them.

and ofcourse now the FSA carry that flag

 

quite funny really

 

calling their staff criminals...whatever next...

 

they'll be teling you that you'll be zinc'd next...opps that's another desk in the same office too

but that blokes got a diff coloured skirt on from the rest of 'em:lol:

Nah 2 different companies completely but you will love this DX...

"Pay Online...." I dont think so!!!

The funny thing is I didn't mention illegal, they are the ones equivocating unlawful and illegal.

`i received another letter from yourselves last week regarding a supposed balance of £126.49. I reiterate that your admin fees are unlawful and unenforceable penalties despite membership T&C's including provision for such charges. I accidentally cancelled my gym membership one month early, and again I offer to pay the final months payment of £9.99`

I thought that was a fairly standard letter so I'm not sure why II appear to have been given special treatment!

Thanks for everyone's responses.

office junior?

dx

Lol, that's not from any office junior !! That letter has been written either by Rob Avery or David Castle. I love their bit about "numerous court cases". The only one they've taken here recently was a massive failure - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?431240-Harlands-CRS-**WITHDRAW-COURT-CLAIM**

So much writing yet so little truth or substance. I'd be inclined to simply ignore the letter.

If you offered to pay them the £10, you need do no more for now.

Lol, that's not from any office junior !! That letter has been written either by Rob Avery or David Castle. I love their bit about "numerous court cases". The only one they've taken here recently was a massive failure - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?431240-Harlands-CRS-**WITHDRAW-COURT-CLAIM**

 

So much writing yet so little truth or substance. I'd be inclined to simply ignore the letter.

 

If you offered to pay them the £10, you need do no more for now.

 

You really think its been written by the Boss? It does seem a bit... Erm... like Harlands and co have got their knives out...

Wonder what caused them to write an email like that.

OP - Hoob... Who did you address it to?

It wasn't addressed to anyone, it was actually just an email to a generic address on their letter.

But who signed the letter and was it from Harlands or CRS.

We have seen many lengthy letters form both Harlands and CRS. They are more like rants, they way they go on. But they all have the same in common - they make up quite a lot of twaddle and swear blind they have the full backing of the FOS, the Judiciary and probably HM The Queen as well !!

The letterhead was CRS. It wasn't signed by anyone, I think they managed to miss the second page of the letter. The lack of a full stop in the quoted letter is exactly how the letter is, it kind of just comes to an end.

Hi Hoob,

You said in post #1 that you offered to pay them the £10 you owe due to stopping the DD's one month early.

Replying to Harlands/CRS will make no difference to their views or their collection attempts so I'd simply ignore them for now.

Let us know if you hear more from them, so you can consider formal complaints to :-

1. The CMA

2. Your local Trading Standards Office.

3. The Trading Standards office local to Harlands.

I received another letter today, back to the standard ones it seems. Just the usual saying that if I don't respond within 10 days they MAY take legal action or employ a different debt collectors. Do I ignore this one too?

Hi TheHoob,

Yes, I would simply ignore for now.

I've been receiving calls from Zinc for a while now and I've had my first letter, though it is dated well before Christmas.

It's a fairly standard letter saying that I can accept a reduced amount (90 something pounds, I don't have it with me) or set up a payment plan. They may take me to court etc.

How should I respond?

Thanks in advance.

nope

no dca has any legal powers

they ARE NOT BAILIFFS

dx

Hi Hoob,

You have 2 choices :-

1. Ignore Zinc completely.

2. Write a reply saying, "You are making demands in respect of a matter that is in clear dispute with Harlands. If you contact me again, you will be reported to Trading Standards and The CMA for clear breach of The OFT Debt Collection Guidelines."

Suggestion 2 will probably see them scuttle of back under their rock !

This lot seem to have resurrected this two years later. Had a couple of texts and emails from CRS saying that the case has been sent back to them from Zinc. Any thoughts? It has been a while but I'm pretty sure that I just ignored Zinc!

As post 17

Thank you.

Hi Hoob,

If you want to see Harlands/CRS, you could take them to court seeking nominal damages. A cheap option that we'd be happy to help you with.

In the meantime, write to X4Less Head Office. Tell them they're jointly responsible for harassment by Harlands/CRS and they will be named as Co-Defendant in court action which you can take to stop Harlands/CRS harassing you further.

See the letter here - https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?464734-Excercise-4-Less-Harlands-CRS-**RESOLVED-Harlands-told-to-back-off**&p=5067760&viewfull=1#post5067760

Don't copy the letter but use it to say the same things in your own words.

Post a draft here first if you want it checked ...........