Hi, I've only just discovered this forum and wish I knew about it before!

If anyone could help me in my situation I'd be really grateful.

We have been renting a flat with an allocated numbered parking space. My partner parked the car, went in the house without realising the permit had fallen off. He said it was on the seat and still visible. CPM issued a parking charge notice. The pictures show the parking terms which are in the car park about the charge, permit must be displayed in the windscreen etc. In the pictures you can also see the permit holder on the dashboard, having come unstuck.

The car's in my name so I wrote back as asked in the notice to appeal. I included a copy of the permit (also numbered), our tenancy agreement showing we have use of the space, explaining that it had fallen but also stating that my partner was in at the time and the bell for our flat is about 10 feet from the space, if they'd rung the bell he would have come down and reattached the permit. Didn't really think much of it, kind of assumed it would be fine.

We're now moving out and I just received a letter saying they've rejected the appeal because the permit wasnt displayed, and that it's our responsibility to ensure its on. It also gave a POPLA number and web address to appeal to them.

Maybe stupidly, I phoned both popla and cpm. I was a bit emotional but didn't really expect anything to come of it. POPLA told me i should have been sent a paper form, but i wasnt. I can try to do it online but only have my phone and 4g at the moment, it took me 10 tries just to register for this forum :/ Is it worth appealing to POPLA as well? We're not living at the old address and I didn't particularly want to give them the new one, especially if they'll just turn around and reject again.

Thank you for any insight! Please let me know if I need to provide more info.

Of course! POPLA all the way. You can do it by post too

How to appeal

 

If you want to appeal, you must do so with 28 days of date of the operator’s notice of rejection. The easiest way to appeal is to submit your appeal online here. Otherwise, you can complete the form and return it to POPLA by post. However, your appeal must be received within the 28 day period. If you send your appeal by post, you are advised to obtain a certificate of posting at the time you send it. Only submit your appeal ONCE

 

Important: you must include the 10 digit verification code on your appeal otherwise your appeal will not be registered.

 

 

Everything that you send to us will be copied to the operator. Please attach or enclose all relevant evidence at the time you submit your appeal.

 

Do not pay the parking charge if you want to appeal.

 

If sending your appeal by post, please submit copies (not originals) of all relevant evidence with the appeal form.

 

Remember to ensure that the envelope you use to send in your appeal form to us has sufficient postage affixed because POPLA cannot accept mail where this is underpaid.

 

POPLA will always acknowledge receipt of your appeal and tell you the date, on or after which, your appeal is due to be considered.

 

Keep a copy of your verification code (on the operators notice of rejection and printed at the bottom of the appeal form) in case you have to contact us. You will need it to appeal online. If you do not have a verification code you should ask the operator who issued the parking charge notice for this immediately. You cannot get a verification code unless the operator has had an opportunity to consider your representations and has rejected them.

 

If contesting your appeal, the operator is required to send the Assessor details of their case, as well as the representations you made and their rejection of them. The operator will send you a copy of everything they send to the Assessor.

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You dont need a permit for your own space, it is an administractive convenience dreamt up by people who have no right to tell you what to do anyway.

Your appeal to POPLA should be that the parking space is yours and that no contract exists that allows CPM to interfere with your right to enjoy it how you wish. You therfore invite CPM to produce a copy of the contract signed by you as occupier of the space that allows them to sue their principal for using their own property as you do not recall signing such a contract and so do not believe it exists.

Any contract they have will be with a management company who dont have the right to make such contracts and can be sued for harassment if they try and enforce such a thing

You dont need a permit for your own space, it is an administractive convenience dreamt up by people who have no right to tell you what to do anyway.

Your appeal to POPLA should be that the parking space is yours and that no contract exists that allows CPM to interfere with your right to enjoy it how you wish. You therfore invite CPM to produce a copy of the contract signed by you as occupier of the space that allows them to sue their principal for using their own property as you do not recall signing such a contract and so do not believe it exists.

Any contract they have will be with a management company who dont have the right to make such contracts and can be sued for harassment if they try and enforce such a thing

Thank you so much for this, it's exactly what I need. I have submitted an appeal through POPLA although it's not worded very well, so I'm just hoping it's enough to get them to stop bothering me.

And who the hell is your landlord? I guarantee that your tenancy agreement will not state that you are liable to pay these speculative invoices, I'd be writing a very strongly worded letter of complaint too them and tell them the error of their ways!

Back in June I posted about a PCN I received from CPM while my car was parked in the space assigned to the flat I was renting at the time. The parking permit had slipped off. As advised I appealed to POPLA after my appeal to CPM was rejected.

The POPLA appeal was also refused, basically they said I had no appeal because the sign stated the permit had to be clearly displayed etc etc.

I do know that my appeal was very poorly worded. I know I should have brought in something about it being not a pre-estimate of loss for the landowner (since that was my landlord who was leasing the space to me), but I didn't, had no idea at the time that would be such an issue.

I've now moved and have not given either POPLA or CPM my new address. The POPLA letter was sent to the old one and redirected to me. It's dated the 15th August and I only got it today, asking me to pay £100 in 14 days.

The CPM website is full of apparently successful CCJS and stuff. I'm really not sure where to go from here since I messed up the popla appeal so badly. To add to the mess the car's now not registered to me (it's registered to my husband). I don't really want this to keep going on, especially as if they send me anything I'm unlikely to get it very speedily. There's a lot of advice to just ignore it from here on, but I have no idea if that's a good idea or not. :/ any help would be super appreciated!

The space was part of your rental

If they chance this at court I expect you would win

I would give them your current address so if any court paperwork was to be issued

they would not get a judjment by default

Ignore them unless court paperwork that space was part of your rent

The loss is nothing

Hi.

I've merged your threads to keep the information together.

HB

Back in June I posted about a PCN I received from CPM while my car was parked in the space assigned to the flat I was renting at the time. The parking permit had slipped off. As advised I appealed to POPLA after my appeal to CPM was rejected.

 

The POPLA appeal was also refused, basically they said I had no appeal because the sign stated the permit had to be clearly displayed etc etc.

 

I do know that my appeal was very poorly worded. I know I should have brought in something about it being not a pre-estimate of loss for the landowner (since that was my landlord who was leasing the space to me), but I didn't, had no idea at the time that would be such an issue.

 

I've now moved and have not given either POPLA or CPM my new address. The POPLA letter was sent to the old one and redirected to me. It's dated the 15th August and I only got it today, asking me to pay £100 in 14 days.

 

The CPM website is full of apparently successful CCJS and stuff. I'm really not sure where to go from here since I messed up the popla appeal so badly. To add to the mess the car's now not registered to me (it's registered to my husband). I don't really want this to keep going on, especially as if they send me anything I'm unlikely to get it very speedily. There's a lot of advice to just ignore it from here on, but I have no idea if that's a good idea or not. :/ any help would be super appreciated!

Post #3 told you exactly what to put in your POPLA appeal.

You somehow acknowledged that that is what you needed and subsequently ignored it.

So you now want more advice after complicating the situation further...

You have two options;

1. Pay what is being asked of you as " I don't really want this to keep going on..... "

Or

2. Act on the advice given here.

Answer 1 or 2 and we might get somewhere.

Post #3 told you exactly what to put in your POPLA appeal.

 

You somehow acknowledged that that is what you needed and subsequently ignored it.

 

So you now want more advice after complicating the situation further...

 

You have two options;

 

1. Pay what is being asked of you as " I don't really want this to keep going on..... "

 

Or

 

2. Act on the advice given here.

 

Answer 1 or 2 and we might get somewhere.

At the time I was in a bit of a bad place after moving house and completely panicking. I put in the appeal, like suggested here, that I didn't need a permit to park in my own space and that there was no contract between me and CPM, and also provided a copy of my lease which says my flat came with a parking space. That's what's been refused, the refusal says that the sign was there and stated that the permit needed to be clearly displayed and that I've now admitted I was parked there so therefore i still have to pay.

I've since looked about a bit and realised I should have said something about the charge not being a genuine pre estimate of loss, which I didn't know at the time was how to word this sort of thing. I'd also hoped (naively) that maybe POPLA would use some common sense and understand I might not know the exact wording to use, but obviously not.

I don't know, I've looked through a lot of others with pcns and most seem to be in retail car parks or similar, I can't find many recent instances of my situation and what the outcome was, so I just have no idea what to expect. It probably seems stupid but I'm the type of person to feel kind of overwhelmed by something like this and keep worrying about it.

I also now can't figure out firstly how I would give them my up to daten address and also if that would just make it easier for them to send me a bunch of annoyed letters.

At the time I was in a bit of a bad place after moving house and completely panicking. I put in the appeal, like suggested here, that I didn't need a permit to park in my own space and that there was no contract between me and CPM, and also provided a copy of my lease which says my flat came with a parking space. That's what's been refused, the refusal says that the sign was there and stated that the permit needed to be clearly displayed and that I've now admitted I was parked there so therefore i still have to pay.

 

I've since looked about a bit and realised I should have said something about the charge not being a genuine pre estimate of loss, which I didn't know at the time was how to word this sort of thing. I'd also hoped (naively) that maybe POPLA would use some common sense and understand I might not know the exact wording to use, but obviously not.

 

I don't know, I've looked through a lot of others with pcns and most seem to be in retail car parks or similar, I can't find many recent instances of my situation and what the outcome was, so I just have no idea what to expect. It probably seems stupid but I'm the type of person to feel kind of overwhelmed by something like this and keep worrying about it.

 

I also now can't figure out firstly how I would give them my up to daten address and also if that would just make it easier for them to send me a bunch of annoyed letters.

I think if they continue writing that you suggest to them that they try in court where you will defend. I cannot see any Judge awarding them judgement for you parking in your own space, because of some parking sign about displaying a permit.

POPLA told you that you should have displayed the permit? I cannot believe that they would say such a thing unless you failed to make it clear that the space was yours by dint of the lease rather than just an allocated space, which belongs to landowner.. You can write to POPLA and tell them that you wish them to reconsider the matter as you believe their determination is defective because it appears to give CPM a right over your land that you havent granted them as the landlord and thus you would have to consider your options regarding a judicial review of their determination. Copy this to CPM with your new address and they cant then say they dont have it.

Don't know how interested POPLA will be with it currently changing hands to the new operator...

Also CPMS Left the BPA on 29/04/2015 and are now members of the IPC AOS!

You really should give them your current address

Yes you may get some scary letters that can be ignored

Perhaps some one wanting to do a door step collection to add to their collection

They can be told not to return

But if they chance this at court you will be able to defend the claim

If they do not have your address court papers will only go to your old address

They then will be able to trash your credit file for 6 years with a county court judjement

POPLA told you that you should have displayed the permit? I cannot believe that they would say such a thing unless you failed to make it clear that the space was yours by dint of the lease rather than just an allocated space, which belongs to landowner.. You can write to POPLA and tell them that you wish them to reconsider the matter as you believe their determination is defective because it appears to give CPM a right over your land that you havent granted them as the landlord and thus you would have to consider your options regarding a judicial review of their determination. Copy this to CPM with your new address and they cant then say they dont have it.

Yep... exact words are

'The terms of parking, as displayed on the signage in photographic evidence, included a requirement to display a valid permit. As this requirement is a continuing obligation, a user breaches it if the permit is not clearly displayed at any time whilst the vehicle is parked, whether or not the user possesses a permit and has a right to access the bay within the lease. As the appellant has admitted that this occurred, they have admitted breaching the terms of parking.'

The letter also says I have 14 days to pay as of 15th of august however on the CPM website it states I'm over 30 days overdue. So, what.

I'm going to write to CPM again with the new address and a few better set out points and we'll see. I honestly cannot see any judge deciding that £100 is an appropriate charge, let's hope these ****artists realise that too.

There is a big difference between right of access and ownership of a bay in the lease. Yous case is that you own the space by dint of the lease, not just having permission of freeholder to use it, which is very different. Allocated parking can be either so the terms of the lease when the flat was sold are paramount.

Anyway, I bet that the parking control contract was signed by the management company (who would then take a payment for this) and so not worth a light anyway. Let POPLA know they have made an error adn tell CPM you arent paying and invite then to proceed further if they want a harassment claim.

And complain to your LL.