The people have NOT spoken - the biased press and Channel 4 have spoken, allegedly on our behalf.

What a warped world you live in. In my case I have worked since I was 17, so 40 years of paying tax and NI contributions, so therefore I am NOT a scrounger or a shirker.

Perhaps this thread could be closed as it is getting hijacked by a troll.

The question to be asked is why 12 Billion savings have to be made from the Social Security Budget. That is 10% of the whole budget when 70 billion is wasted each year through corporate tax avoidance and evasion? It seems the Nasty party need to get their priorities in order or is this just the usual Tory ideology

I would say to you that if you can come up with a way to stop tax avoidance, then it is your duty to say so, no I thought not.

Maybe they need to look at why they appear to be wasting so much money on errors first? Surely that would save some money?

well we will all know whats what come the 8th, i know in the paper to day he is talking about lowering the cap to 23K for london and 20K for the rest of UK, and it looks like there will be big cuts to TAX/C, but like i said none of us know for sure what will be cut, so lets wait and see, it may turn out its not as bad as we was all thinking

There is one way they could make a lot of money, and that is fine the french for each migrant that comes over in the back of a truck, they would soon stop them on there side then.

I would say to you that if you can come up with a way to stop tax avoidance, then it is your duty to say so, no I thought not.

Do you have to be an expert to hold an opinion? Thought not...

I am wondering if some of the intended change to esa support group is the insistence of treatment for the illness/condition. No doubt all will be revealed on wednesday.

But most of us are incureable. Yes, I do take medication for a few of my conditions; but it is making one of my other conditions worse.

Totally agreeing with you Nystagmite. I have had 12 months one to one treatment whilst i waited for my tribunal hearing ...there is no more or new treatment i can have. Thinking of the already ridiculous waiting lists and state of the nhs its hardly much good idea wise anyhow. And who would decide what the best treatment is. Just my thoughts with the comment about change to support group. Guess we will see on wednesday.

I suspect the changes to the support group won't be fully explained until the Autumn statement, but we've had leaks for some time now that they intend to means test it, and make it much, much harder to get into that group.

Huh, as if it was easy now.

And who would decide what the best treatment is.

Indeed. It's difficult enough for me now because there's so much medication I can't actually take.

I would say to you that if you can come up with a way to stop tax avoidance, then it is your duty to say so, no I thought not.

Close the loopholes, overhaul the way we tax in this country.

I am wondering if some of the intended change to esa support group is the insistence of treatment for the illness/condition. No doubt all will be revealed on wednesday.

That's a bit of a problem, insisting on treatment. It's ok for things like talking therapies or cbt for depression/anxiety or attending a weight loss group or for obesity related disability, maybe physio for some conditions, but insisting on medications or surgery is a no go because the government would find themselves open to litigation for adverse effects. Also it would be a human rights violation. Plus, can you imagine the fallout from the first death during surgery or as a rare side effect of a drug?

Also I suspect the whole 'insisting on treatment' thing is code for 'we have a company in the wings ready to provide mandatory courses for everyone with a certain diagnosis' (depression, anxiety, obesity would be my guess). The NHS doesn't have the capacity to treat all those on the waiting list for proper treatment so any mandatory insistence will probably be for a pseudo treatment course that has no value apart from to try to force people off of benefit due to fear of the courses.

The government should be sorting out low pay and high rents, that's where all the problems started, around 10 to 15 years ago my rent was around a quarter of my take home pay now rent is around half the take home pay of someone on minimum wage and people are having to claim tax credits to top the wages up.

 

A decent living wage would be the incentive to work instead of letting employers pay peanuts while letting the tax payers foot the bill as employers profits soar.

To be able to have affordable housing /rent and a decent rate of pay they would have to stop the flow of illegal immigrants coming into this country as well as proper control on the amount of economic migrants from the EU , as the increased demand on housing is forcing rents and house prices up, and putting extra strain on our infrastructure , health services, schools and transport,(roads) but we know that government will not do this as it suits them that there is so much cheap labour incoming that what the tory capitalists want, it's a form a slavery IMO

Until the working population decreases (cheap imported labour) rates of pay will not increase, stop WTC would mean some would loose their low paid jobs and would reveal the true unemployment figures

Why has this forum been infected with Kippers??

This is the third time That term "Immigrants" has been used in a despicable negative way today

What next "Muslim bashing?"

This topic is state benefits, not Europe or immigrants/Migrants

This forum is helping people, no matter what their status, not demonising them

My son is currently in the support group and has been for the past 18 months. I am not sure what treatment they could mandate him to have that could possibly help. He is autistic and as far as I am aware there is no cure or medication fix. Maybe they will try brain surgery, you know straighten out the neurological developmental issues. Wonder if they will do this in the main area of the JC, surely brain surgery will afford him a private room.

My son is currently in the support group and has been for the past 18 months. I am not sure what treatment they could mandate him to have that could possibly help. He is autistic and as far as I am aware there is no cure or medication fix. Maybe they will try brain surgery, you know straighten out the neurological developmental issues. Wonder if they will do this in the main area of the JC, surely brain surgery will afford him a private room.

Like your son, I have Autism. I also have severe OCD because of this. I also have some other complex medical issues. I have been told more than once there's no cure or indeed treatment.

Sadly as most of us already know It's not about your illness, but wether your symptoms fit their wretched descriptors.

Why has this forum been infected with Kippers??

 

This is the third time That term "Immigrants" has been used in a despicable negative way today

What next "Muslim bashing?"

 

This topic is state benefits, not Europe or immigrants/Migrants

 

This forum is helping people, no matter what their status, not demonising them

Whilst I dislike UKIP to the core, People who Support UKIP are entitled to their opinions. And not everybody that has immigration concerns is a KIPPER

Please remember that people are entitled to their opinions and so long as they do not break the site rules should be continued to be allowed to.

Although your comment regarding the original topic of conversation is noted. Perhaps we should stick to the topic on sickness benefit cuts here.

Rest assured any post advocating illegal activities esp muslim bashing, or immigrant bashing or anything illegal shall be dealt with.

To be able to have affordable housing /rent and a decent rate of pay they would have to stop the flow of illegal immigrants coming into this country as well as proper control on the amount of economic migrants from the EU , as the increased demand on housing is forcing rents and house prices up, and putting extra strain on our infrastructure , health services, schools and transport,(roads) but we know that government will not do this as it suits them that there is so much cheap labour incoming that what the tory capitalists want, it's a form a slavery IMO

 

Until the working population decreases (cheap imported labour) rates of pay will not increase, stop WTC would mean some would loose their low paid jobs and would reveal the true unemployment figures

No, the fact that housebuilding isn't keeping up with demand is what is putting increased pressure on rental prices plus the difficulties for the last few years of getting a mortgage causing more people to need to rent than buy, plus less availability of social housing.

And there isn't a decent rate of pay because government is subsidising employers with tax credits and housing benefit meaning employers don't need to pay a living wage. Pro business lobbys ensure that the government don't put up minimum wage to ensure that wages don't eat too much into profits.

Lack of sufficient funding is putting pressure on public services.

The UKIP model of 'all immigrants are to blame for everything', is a clever propaganda filled policy which hooks people who are looking for an easy answer to what is a far more difficult situation than UKIP suggest.

It is also an an excellent cover for the fact that UKIP are a right wing uber capitalist pro business, pro wealth party - even more so than the Tories.

Why has this forum been infected with Kippers??

 

This is the third time That term "Immigrants" has been used in a despicable negative way today

What next "Muslim bashing?"

 

This topic is state benefits, not Europe or immigrants/Migrants

 

This forum is helping people, no matter what their status, not demonising them

Can we keep it civil please guys?

HB

No, the fact that housebuilding isn't keeping up with demand is what is putting increased pressure on rental prices plus the difficulties for the last few years of getting a mortgage causing more people to need to rent than buy, plus less availability of social housing.

 

And there isn't a decent rate of pay because government is subsidising employers with tax credits and housing benefit meaning employers don't need to pay a living wage. Pro business lobbys ensure that the government don't put up minimum wage to ensure that wages don't eat too much into profits.

 

Lack of sufficient funding is putting pressure on public services.

 

The UKIP model of 'all immigrants are to blame for everything', is a clever propaganda filled policy which hooks people who are looking for an easy answer to what is a far more difficult situation than UKIP suggest.

 

It is also an an excellent cover for the fact that UKIP are a right wing uber capitalist pro business, pro wealth party - even more so than the Tories.

Yes thatchers government with the right to buy council housing stock, and councils not being forced to replace housing stock , but the influx of people from the EU and those from outside it who are here but not officially, working as slaves illegally they all need somewhere to live, this whilst not being solely responsible has never the less played a part in it, we are one of the most densely populated countries in the EU , it's not building more houses and more vehicles on our roads what we need, it's a lower population ,

On the rates of pay i'm aware of some companies who started employing eastern Europeans, who they paid less than what they paid British workers, as a result they lowered their rates to everyone, the government have encouraged this , and as said if they stopped WTC and HB for min wage jobs, most employers would lay off some staff, because by paying such poor wages they have been able to afford 2 people for the price of one basically, boom time for them should be over

I wasn't bashing anyone, just telling how things are,

No, just how YOU see things.

The UKIP model of 'all immigrants are to blame for everything', is a clever propaganda filled policy which hooks people who are looking for an easy answer to what is a far more difficult situation than UKIP suggest.

 

It is also an an excellent cover for the fact that UKIP are a right wing uber capitalist pro business, pro wealth party - even more so than the Tories.

Exactly.