Thread: Angus v Natwest (small £30 default reclaiming) **won**

Hi there everyone,

This is my first posting on the CAG website and I am trying to reclaim a really small amount but it is the principle of it not the fact that they have taken the money off me.

In a nutshell I have had a perfect record with NW for 20 years and paid the odd little bit of legitimate interest on my overdraft and credit card here and there over the years. However I was about £1000 in debt (in my authorsied overdraft). I was (as is VERY common these days) out of the country for about 4 months. So I left the country owing about £1000 in my authorised OD with NW. I was earning abroad and aiming to come back to the UK with enough money to clear this OD amount. However 3 months into my trip I saw a fee being charged for £30. I contacted Natwest and one thing led to another and I cleared the debt off of the £1000 overdraft with my Natwest credit card (which I have now paid off from the same current account - dumb Natwest! - so money shifting thats all!). They would not repay the £30 default fee.

1. I told Natwest before I went abroad that I would be out of the country for several months.
2. I told them to contact me via email or via my internet banking if they needed to contact me urgently re any banking matter as I have no-one lawfully that could look after my interests in this country whilst I was away.
3. I told my local branch this and they said they would note it on my files (I always tell them before going out the country for periods of time so they do not query continuos internaional Switch and credit card transactions).

So they refused to refund the £30 fee they charged me.... when I verbally complained on the phone to their collections centre the girl offered to refund 50% - I said no way....... so they were accepting they were in the wrong surely there and then.

Anyway to finish and get up to date i've sent the initial 'Request for payments' letter. Got a standard letter from Stuart Higley this am. Half of it is not corrent anyway and they reject the OFT 5 April statement. 'The bank is under no obligation to explain how its charges are calculated and we are not prepared to enter into any correspondance on this matter,' was an interesing comment.

Anyway I am about to submit the lba letter now.

Questions:
1) am I right here
2) should I continue for only £30 - it p***** me off that they are being so petty when I dont think I was at fault.
3) should I really go forward if they reject this letter as I will be risking way more than I will gain (just £30)!!!!

Thanks CAG - comments and suggestions very welcome.

Steve

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Forgot to add sorry that when I did initially contact them way back in September when I called the clearing office to pay off the £1000 odd owing... the girl clearly and verbally stated that she would reinstate the £30 charge... 'it may take a few days though for it to be credited she said.'

It was only after 30 days and nothing appeared on my account that I chased them again and the same collections centre said no record of them agreeing to refund me the £30.... that was when as a guesture of good will they would give me the £15 back (50%) and I refused and when to the 'Request for payment' letter.

....sorry forgot to mention that bit.

1. Yes
2. Doesn't matter whether you were 'at fault' or not, the charge is unlawful.
3. Only £30 court fee is at risk and that's minimal. If they don't pay up before moneyclaim, it'll cost them £30+ court fee + 8% interest

Thank you for that reply...... I am full steam ahead.

The letter I received this morning was so standard and it was factually incorrect:

"They (the charges) have all been associated with a lack of covering funds in the account at the time items were presented for payment...."

... there were funds..... authorised overdraft funds.

ON A SEPERATE NOTE THERE IS LOTS ON THIS SITE ABOUT LARGE SUMS OF MONEY BEING RECLAIMED..... IF...NO... WHEN I AM SUCCESSFUL THERE SHOULD BE MORE MADE OF THE FACT THAT IT NEEDNT BE A MILLION POUNDS YOU ARE CLAIMING - EVERY LITTLE HELPS AS THEY SAY!!!!!

THANKS.

Here is the draft of the letter I am about to send - for those small claimers out there!!!

Customer Relations Department
Ground Floor
National Westminster House
225 Shenley Road
Borehamwood
WD6 1TE

letter before action

Dear Sir/Madam (Mr Stuart Higley),

ACCOUNT NUMBER: XXXXXXXXXXX

I am very disappointed that you have failed to respond satisfactorily to my letter of the 26th September 2006. Instead you have responded with a standard letter on the 6th November 2006.

I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

I calculate that you have taken £30 (plus interest). The amount of interest is so very small I have decided not to include it in this claim. Therefore the total amount which you have taken is Total £30.

I am enclosing a copy of the letter (once again) showing the schedule of the charges of the £30 fee which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 26th September 2006.

Additionally you have entered a default notice against my credit record. This default occurred merely in respect of unlawful charges levied by you or was the result of impecuniosity caused directly by the taking by you of penalty charges which you had applied unlawfully to my account.

In addition to full payment of the sum mentioned above I require that you remove the default entry from the register. Please note that mere correction or amendment to the entry will not be acceptable.

I require repayment in full of this money and removal of the default notice. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus a claim under ss.7 and 13 of the Data Protection Act 1998 plus my costs and without further notice.

I would once again draw your attention to the findings of the OFT that show that your regime of fees charging are considered to be unfair, as reported on the 5th April 2006 and the charging of fees are unlawful at Common Law and Statute levels.

I am also sure that you are aware of the findings of Competition Commision. If you are not then I have included the following link:

http://www.competition-commission.org.uk/inquiries/ref2005/banking/provisional_findings.htm

Finally to reiterate myself once again. I find that Natwest bank is in the wrong. I have had been your customer for 20 odd years and I think you will find I have been an excellent account holder. I informed Natwest that I would be away from the country and should there be any problems with my account (such as requiring me to pay an abnormal amount in to clear my overdraft) that you should contact me. However I was away for an extended period of time and the balance on the overdraft was cleared as soon as I first became aware of a problem with my account since the letters by post you were sending through were unopened as no-one was at my address to open them.

Finally I WAS promised a refund of the £30 charge when I called up to clear the overdraft, when I called your Birmingham Collections Centre although no record of this exists. I was ALSO offered a partial refund of £15 when I called this same office a month later to complain the £30 I had been promised had not been credited. Either way in whatever form you look at things, this is taken as an admission of guilt on your behalf. Natwest I will not rest until the £30 is repaid to my account.

At this stage I am aware of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 and aware of my right to complain to the OFT upon the basis that you have failed to comply with their 5 April 2006 direction, as a not ‘fit and proper person’ to hold a consumer credit license under the 1974 Act. At this stage I will hold back making the suggestion that I will contact them but reserve the right to do so if this matter is not concluded swiftly and satisfactorily by you.

Quite frankly I cannot believe I have been treated to appallingly by my bank.

Yours faithfully,




XXXXXXXXXXX

I was just reading a few other of these Natwest threads and I know I am not claiming the £'000's that everyone else is but as I will state again it is the principle that I care about..........

....... so when Natwest collections centre verbally promised me verbally (their agent I was on the phone with did) when I INITIALLY contacted them to pay off my overdraft, that they would refund the £30 fee and they didnt where do I stand?

The girl (I did query and confirm it) did quite clearly say she would refund the £30 they had charged me but it would take some time to come through to my account. I waited 30 days and no refund arrived and that was when I called again and they refuted ever agreeing to the refund. I have NO record (neither do they of course!!!!!!) that they agreed to it. Where do I stand?

I am annoyed that I did not record that call? Advice? I did put it in my lba letter above you will see.

Keep going everyone..... for those bigger sums.

.... it just goes to show that every little counts and EVERYONE should be going the full mile with their bank when they take us to the cleaners on a regular basis - (that is my opinion moderator in case you get into trouble for that statement!).

MODERATOR PLEASE CHANGE THE THREAD TITLE - THANKS


15th November 2006

Anyway the letter just arrived from Stuart Higley in Customer Relations in Borehamwood.

Dear Mr XXXXX,

I reget that that there is little that I can add constructively add to my last letter (ed. - after I sent the lba). However I have reviewed your account again and I cannot find any instance where charges have been taken incorrectly.

That said, in this instance and as a gesture of goodwill we have agreed to refund the chrages amounting to £30.00. This refund is made as a Full and final settlement of your complaint (ed. the interest on £30.00 would have been about 5p so I told them in my LBA letter not to worry). Any charges incurred in the future will not be refunded and I am taking this opportunity to enclose our leaflet, which gives details of our fees and interest and when they will be debited.

I hope that matters are now resolved and thank you for writing.

Yours sincerely,


Stuart Higley
Customer Relations

Ground Floor,
National Westminster House,
225 Shenley Road,
Borehamwood. WD6 1TE



.......... please everyone keep on fighting and good luck...... with First Direct making the announcements about the monthly fees they are going to start charging customers just for having an account (which I should add is common place in the most of the rest of the world) we need to fight back!

GOOD LUCK.


Stevea1