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Should we leave the EU..


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bigger the fool that does vote to leave, we voted in years ago, those not around in those days do not know how behind times this country was, the difference now to them is so far ahead, jobs abroad in those days were hard to get, movement between countries expensive and time consuming for correct papers, in fact holidays were a luxury for the few could go on and on and on, benefits out way disadvantages.

 

Not only that the so called markets we had then albeit limited have all gone to other pastures.

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Could we not trade with Europe without having to be part of a political union, which I don't recall being consulted about, wasn't the original idea about closer trade links. As far as human right are concerned, we could still hold on to the human rights act could we not ?

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Arguments to remain in the eu on the basis of "so the tories cant scrap the HRA" are absurd.

 

1. HRA and EU membership are not mutually inclusive. U need the HRA to be an EU member, but you do not have to be an EU member to have the HRA

2. HRA is a separate entity to the EU we will be voting on

3. If the sole reason to stay in the EU is to stop our government removing rights, then surely the question is not "Should we stay in the EU" but more about "Why elect a government you do not trust with your fundamental rights"

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The reason people want to leave the EU is because they see the UK as an Island separate from mainland Europe that has always traded with the world. The problem is that the world has changed and will change more rapidly in the next 10 years. When China catches an economic cold, the rest of the world feels it.

 

China has recently launched a major investment Bank and its currency is expected to become a reserve currency in the next year or so. What has this got to do with the EU? The EU is a massive trading block and is still important to the rest of the world. It is much easier to obtain agreements on trade, consumer protection etc as part of a 600 million people consumer market. Norway is not part of the EU, but they still find they have to implement EU rules, when they don't even have a seat at the table when things are discussed. China may well overtake the U.S. Economy and they will have huge influence on the UK. I don't think I would want the UK to have to deal with this alone and would want the UK to be part of a more powerful block of countries.

 

It would be madness to vote to leave the EU.

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I agree with Unclebulgaria.

 

The anti EU brigade always seem to cite Norway and Switzerland as two countries that do well outside of the EU but fail to realise their economies are inextricably linked to the EU without having a seat at the top table. They simply have to grin and bear it when new EU policies are made and implemented. Besides which both countries have tiny populations compared to the UK and do not need to export on an industrial scale on behalf of non EU countries like Japan who only invested in the UK because of easy access to EU markets.

 

All those jobs plus all the other industries that survive on the coat tails of the likes of Nissan, Toyota and the like would go elsewhere. Countries like Slovakia would bend over backwards for some of that action. Those who hark back to the 'good old days' need to remember we no longer have an empire to dump our industrial output apon and countries like Canada, Australia, India have now developed their own economic blocs and certainly do not need to kow tow to us any more either politically or economically.

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I have to admit, I am yet to be swayed either way.

 

I certainly wonder how much would desert the uk if we dropped the EU. We are a target market in our own right. Those that choose not to supply goods or services here could be replaced.

 

Also outside of the EU, would the UK not be more liberated to create its own incentives to encourage investment?

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I have to admit, I am yet to be swayed either way.

 

I certainly wonder how much would desert the uk if we dropped the EU. We are a target market in our own right. Those that choose not to supply goods or services here could be replaced.

 

Also outside of the EU, would the UK not be more liberated to create its own incentives to encourage investment?

 

Why take the risk ? Is the EU really that bad ? When you question politicians on what EU rules they would not have made, they don't come up with much. Yes you get a few silly things, but the UK does that for itself.

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Yes,we voted for a common market, nothing else, the next push as back then,would then be for monetary union

 

never forget black wednesday 1992 a warning of what could happen

 

when you try to converge currencies and economies

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My 2p

The UK joined the EEC in 1973 and then held a referendum on whether we should stay or leave. Obviously we stayed. The EEC was and still is a trading partner. We joined on that premise.

 

What we didn't sign up for was the political side of the EU. That was imposed upon the UK by the then Government and the EU. We didn't get a choice.

 

I don't like anyone telling me what I can or cannot do but I also give my allegiance to a country I was born in. Who gave the EU the right to decide what this country can or cannot do?

Since its inception, how many times have the accounts been signed off by the auditors. Not once to my knowledge. Corruption? Poor practice?

 

This might seem to many like naval gazing and you may be right but British laws for British people.

 

The HRA has been abused by those who commit crime and still wish to remain in this country. No doubt it is the same Europe wide. The biggest bug bear for me is asylum seekers. Nothing personal but as I understand the rules, an asylum seeker should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. If that is the case, why are there so many people at Calais.

 

After saying all that, I'm one of the uncertain ones.

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My 2p

The UK joined the EEC in 1973 and then held a referendum on whether we should stay or leave. Obviously we stayed. The EEC was and still is a trading partner. We joined on that premise.

 

What we didn't sign up for was the political side of the EU. That was imposed upon the UK by the then Government and the EU. We didn't get a choice.

 

I don't like anyone telling me what I can or cannot do but I also give my allegiance to a country I was born in. Who gave the EU the right to decide what this country can or cannot do?

Since its inception, how many times have the accounts been signed off by the auditors. Not once to my knowledge. Corruption? Poor practice?

 

This might seem to many like naval gazing and you may be right but British laws for British people.

 

The HRA has been abused by those who commit crime and still wish to remain in this country. No doubt it is the same Europe wide. The biggest bug bear for me is asylum seekers. Nothing personal but as I understand the rules, an asylum seeker should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. If that is the case, why are there so many people at Calais.

 

After saying all that, I'm one of the uncertain ones.

 

For those very reasons above, I will be voting to leave the EU.

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3: Feel Bullied by Creditors or Debt Collectors? Read Here

4: Staying Calm About Debt  Read Here

5: Forum rules - These have been updated - Please Read

BCOBS

1: How can BCOBS protect you from your Banks unfair treatment

2: Does your Bank play fair - You can force your Bank to play Fair with you

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5: Fair Treatment for Credit Card Holders and Borrowers - COBS

Advice & opinions given by citizenb are personal, are not endorsed by Consumer Action Group or Bank Action Group, and are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Your decisions and actions are your own, and should you be in any doubt, you are advised to seek the opinion of a qualified professional.

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Citizen B wrote "The HRA has been abused by those who commit crime and still wish to remain in this country. No doubt it is the same Europe wide. The biggest bug bear for me is asylum seekers. Nothing personal but as I understand the rules, an asylum seeker should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. If that is the case, why are there so many people at Calais."

 

Could we not have an asylum//EU citizen quota linked to land mass size? please?

Whatnot..

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Citizen B wrote "The HRA has been abused by those who commit crime and still wish to remain in this country. No doubt it is the same Europe wide. The biggest bug bear for me is asylum seekers. Nothing personal but as I understand the rules, an asylum seeker should claim asylum in the first safe country they reach. If that is the case, why are there so many people at Calais."

 

Could we not have an asylum//EU citizen quota linked to land mass size? please?

 

Actually Citizen B quoted me.

 

Australia uses a points based system for genuine migrants but with asylum seekers, we have no idea whether what they are saying is true or that they are saying what Border feds want to hear. It has been rumoured that terrorists have started infiltrating other countries by pretending to be asylum seekers.

 

For the genuine refugees, I have great sympathy but this country cannot continue to support those without it affecting the structural deficit. The UKs streets are not paved with gold, neither is there enough houses or jobs for everyone to move here.

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We are seriously heading for trouble..

 

Correct. World human population will exceed 8 billion by 2025. There are parts of the world which are very tough to reside in e.g lack of food, water, adequate/affordable housing, lack of jobs or low paid jobs, plus increased crime, lack of security and climate issues.

 

Go back 10 years ago and people living in some parts of the world had a life they were reasonably happy with, but because of some of the issues mentioned they now want to move to a better life. With the Internet and media now viewable in most places around the world, people can see there is a better life to be enjoyed elsewhere.

 

Europe is not that populated in terms of land mass available and mainland European countries should be taking more people. If they had the English language perhaps more migrants would claim asylum in Greece, Italy or France. The UK as an Island has to excercise more control and we are doing so.

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The next thing is big business saying they may close their production lines here then people will fear losing their jobs and livelihoods, then the big shift to a yes stay in. At the mo I can't see a no vote succeeding.

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Despite being the EU-cashcow, UK has ALOT of "tax beneficial" resources in the EU which could go to waste if we were to leave. I'm not to sure if they would even be affected as we would more than likely retain EEC status.

 

When I first moved here from Holland, my firs job here was working at the docks driving cars on and off of the boats... Shockingly, Ford came from France and Peugeot came from UK! (great example of a tax effective transaction).

 

Not only that, but as Britain has evolved into a "Service Nation" over the years, the services we deploy around the EU are mission critical to the income of the UK.

 

Furthermore, I feel that being the "Capital State" of "the United States of Europe" as to put it, keeps us in the lead when it comes to general wealth. Becoming a loose cannon, and parting from the EU will deny that imperative status of being financially dominant.

 

As meagre as it may seem (dropping a few pence here and there on the international market), makes a big difference in how everyone sees the country. As much as people thing that the UK ministers are the "patsy's of the of other worlds" they infect, are ours.

 

Where do you think they all turn when a quake hits, when a tornado smacks through a few states, when diseases hit.

 

As much as I disagreed with the notion of us brining back ebola ridden people to the UK for treatment, we maintained a strong proud stance of being "that dependable country".

 

I think we should lead by example through the EU; If need be, force-resign officials of other countries and show them how it's done.

 

As much as MANY people won't like it, I personally think that Cameron is one of the best things that's happened to the financial economy since Churchill.

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The UK is part of the current EU and should remain so, because it in our interest to do so. The City of London financial centre earns more being part of the EU. Wealthy people from across the EU live and conduct business in London.

 

Even Margaret Thatcher recognised how important the EU was to the UK, because it was her government that signed up to much of how the EU currently operates. John Majors government signed up to the Maastricht treaty taking it further, as did Tony Blairs government with the Lisbon treaty.

 

Those that are against the EU will mostly have always seen the UK as being separate from the European mainland and are not concerned with being isolated. In the world we are in, with all the challenges to be faced,we are much better placed to deal with them as part of a club of countries with a population of 600 million and the economic power this represents.

 

David Cameron is not going to take the UK out of the EU, even if he does not gain the changes he wants to see. The referendum campaign will be held in such a way that the Pro EU side will hold an advantage. The EU referendum bill will allow the government to publish pro EU information right up to Election Day. Cameron represents the business interests of the UK and wealthy, many of whom want the UK to remain part of the EU.

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David Cameron is not going to take the UK out of the EU, even if he does not gain the changes he wants to see. The referendum campaign will be held in such a way that the Pro EU side will hold an advantage. The EU referendum bill will allow the government to publish pro EU information right up to Election Day. Cameron represents the business interests of the UK and wealthy, many of whom want the UK to remain part of the EU.

 

In my opinion, if the vote isn't rigged in any way, then I can only see the majority voting to leave. We would then renegotiate our economic membership and life would go on. As things stand, I would want out.

What sort of world do you want your kids to grow up in?

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In order to join the EEC, we had to abandon free trade with a number of English-speaking democracies.

As we applied the Common External Tariff in stages in the 1970s, our commerce was artificially redirected towards the European mainland.

Glasgow, Liverpool and Bristol found themselves on the wrong side of the country, and went into decline.

 

The economic integration of the other Anglosphere states carried on without us. The United States and Canada now form a single market,

as do Australia and New Zealand.

 

The US and Australia signed a Free Trade agreement in 2005, and New Zealand is currently negotiating one.

Singapore’s 18 FTAs include treaties with the United States, Australia and New Zealand.

But Britain and Ireland are unable to join in: we gave away the right to sign bilateral free trade agreements on 1 January 1973.

 

The basis on which we made that decision turned out to be false.

 

Policy makers at the time supposed that there would be more economic growth in Europe than in the Anglosphere.

This was not an unreasonable thing to think at the beginning of the 1970s: Western Europe had handsomely outperformed both the

United States and the Commonwealth since 1945.

 

But things changed with the 1974 oil shock.

 

We can see, in retrospect, that we joined at the worst possible moment, just as Europe’s post-war surge, the Wirtschaftswunder,

was coming to an end, and just as the Commonwealth was taking off.

 

The Anglosphere has solidly outperformed the EU throughout the period of our membership. The eurozone contracted last year, and is contracting again this;

but, according to the IMF, the Commonwealth is growing at 7.3 per cent annually.

 

Yet we are now expected to be excited because the EU is talking to Canada about free trade?

 

We already had a free trade deal with Canada, for Heaven’s sake. We had to give it up so as to become good Europeans.

 

The EFTA countries, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland, have all negotiated FTAs with Ottawa. It’s the EU that has stood aside.

 

But for the EU, we would have signed a comprehensive bilateral trade deal with the United States decades ago.

We wouldn’t be hung up on all the things that have precluded such a deal: coal, steel, textiles, French films. We are a naturally free-trading people.

 

All of which makes anyones attempt to defend EU membership on grounds that it might one day give us free trade with North America bizarre.

It is EU membership that has precluded such trade.

 

This tendency led them into the folly of supporting the euro. Now, rather than having the modesty to ask why they got that call wrong, and why the ‘isolationist John Bulls’ got it right, they defends EU membership with precisely the same discredited arguments that he was deployed in support of the single currency.

 

The European question has never been primarily about economic advantage. Fair enough. For the rest of us, though, the balance of advantage is now unarguable.

 

Every continent is now growing except Antarctica and Europe. We have locked ourselves into the only trade bloc that is shrinking.

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