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Hi,

 

Well my mother was banned from sainsburys for stealing a toilet roll.

 

We had just finished doing our shopping and then my mother decided to go into the bathroom ,

 

 

i was fixing my hair in the mirror and i thought it was weird that their were two cleaning ladies hanging around, getting in my face

and i guess trying to see what my mother was doing in the stall.

 

 

We then left walking in the parking lot when two security guards and a cleaning lady ran up to us demanding where the toilet roll was

and then threatened to call the police.

 

 

My mother was then led away asked about her address (she gave a fake one) and asked why she did it

and then told she was banned from all stores.

And she gave back the toilet roll.

 

I would like to ask:

What would have happened if i had been caught because i'm still technically a minor?

 

How are they able to ban someone from all stores ?

 

Thank you

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Hi,

 

Well my mother was banned from sainsburys for stealing a toilet roll.

 

We had just finished doing our shopping and then my mother decided to go into the bathroom , i was fixing my hair in the mirror and i thought it was weird that their were two cleaning ladies hanging around, getting in my face and i guess trying to see what my mother was doing in the stall.We then left walking in the parking lot when two security guards and a cleaning lady ran up to us demanding where the toilet roll was and then threatened to call the police. My mother was then led away asked about her address (she gave a fake one) and asked why she did it and then told she was banned from all stores. And she gave back the toilet roll.

 

I would like to ask:

What would have happened if i had been caught because i'm still technically a minor?

How are they able to ban someone from all stores ?

 

Thank you

 

"What would have happened if i had been caught because i'm still technically a minor?"

 

If you are above the age of criminal responsibility (10), then you can still be held responsible for an offence (and this would be theft).

As a minor it may make them less likely to want to involve the police (due to the fact a minor is involved), but wouldn't stop them calling the police if the offence was felt serious enough. The police would then have to follow their guidelines for dealing with a minor.

 

"How are they able to ban someone from all stores ?"

Are you asking about the legal basis or practical effect?

Legally, as the store is private property, we all go in by invitation of the owner. That invitation can be withdrawn, and once you know it has been withdrawn (by you being told so), you would be a trespasser if you went into a store.

They don't have to give a reason for the ban, but if someone felt a ban by a store was unfair they could write to head office of the store asking for it to be lifted or clarification if it applied to all stores.

Practically, if you are banned but went into a store where you weren't known ; likely they would never know. However, if a member of staff who had transferred to that store recognised you and said : "Hey, I know them from , and they are banned" ; expect to be ejected.

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It could have been explained that it was not a theft, as the toilet rolls are provided free for use by customers. There are no rules regarding how much paper is used and there is no rule saying that paper could not be taken a way from the store. Perhaps your Mum was suffering from a bad stomach and took some paper just in case of an urgent need on the way home.

 

If this was seen as theft then anyone taking a few sheets of paper away so they could blow their nose would be committing theft as well. How many people take extra paper towels away from a fast food outlet, just in case a need arises. Quite a lot and the stores account for this.

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It could have been explained that it was not a theft, as the toilet rolls are provided free for use by customers. There are no rules regarding how much paper is used and there is no rule saying that paper could not be taken a way from the store. Perhaps your Mum was suffering from a bad stomach and took some paper just in case of an urgent need on the way home.

 

If this was seen as theft then anyone taking a few sheets of paper away so they could blow their nose would be committing theft as well. How many people take extra paper towels away from a fast food outlet, just in case a need arises. Quite a lot and the stores account for this.

 

I disagree.

 

It would hinge on "dishonesty".

Using loo paper, or paper towels would be "appropriating the rights of the owner, with intent to permanently deprive".

So, whether it is theft or not depends on if the intent was "honest intent" or "dishonest intent".

 

I'd suggest that the stores put loo paper in their customer loos for customers to use in the loos. The stores also sell loo paper. I'd suggest that the public understand the paper in the loos isn't meant to be taken home (in complete rolls) as an alternative to buying the paper the store sells.

This would (IMHO) be sufficient (under the Ghosh test) for there to be dishonest intent : thus theft.

 

One or two sheets? Perhaps you are right.

A roll? not hard to show dishonesty.

 

Is there a distinction : one distinction a prosecutor might use : if sheets were pulled from a dispenser against did the dispenser have to be opened for a complete pack / roll to be removed. It'd hinge on the point at which a court found the actions moved from honest to dishonest.

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I disagree.

 

It would hinge on "dishonesty".

Using loo paper, or paper towels would be "appropriating the rights of the owner, with intent to permanently deprive".

So, whether it is theft or not depends on if the intent was "honest intent" or "dishonest intent".

 

I'd suggest that the stores put loo paper in their customer loos for customers to use in the loos. The stores also sell loo paper. I'd suggest that the public understand the paper in the loos isn't meant to be taken home (in complete rolls) as an alternative to buying the paper the store sells.

This would (IMHO) be sufficient (under the Ghosh test) for there to be dishonest intent : thus theft.

 

One or two sheets? Perhaps you are right.

A roll? not hard to show dishonesty.

 

Is there a distinction : one distinction a prosecutor might use : if sheets were pulled from a dispenser against did the dispenser have to be opened for a complete pack / roll to be removed. It'd hinge on the point at which a court found the actions moved from honest to dishonest.

 

You are probably correct, but it could be explained. Perhaps this happened before, hence the actions of the store staff.

 

The store has the right to refuse entry, because t hey believe their facilities were subject to misuse.

We could do with some help from you.

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The above responses are well thought out and debated.

 

The one question I would be asking is did she do it?

 

If she has mental health issues, a letter to sainsburys may have some effect of getting the ban lifted. No guarantees of course.

If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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