Hello All,

I have been reading through this Forum as of yesterday trying to get as much information as possible, and its been a fantastic help. But I now direct help if that is possible. I will try to keep this factual, and short.

Received an enforcement letter yesterday from 'Burlington Group' (based in camberly) is for a sum of £3746.75 plus interest of £1.64, compliance stage fee £90, totalling £3838.39.

This 'writ of control' was issued on 23rd April 2015. However the original judgment was on 23rd Dec 2010.

I was aware of this judgment nearly 5 years ago, and fought the claimant regarding this, however it was awarded to him. When I came to paying the debt, I had an informal 'chat' with the claimant (4.5 years ago) stating that I was not in a position to pay it, and in fact I didn't owe it. From this he didn't persue it any further...... which tbh I totally forgot all about it, until I received the letter yesterday completely out of the blue.

So worried and shocked I thought I would do some research, and came across this wonderful forum, and reading lots all day yesterday way in the small hours. I had not contacted the Enforcement company at all yesterday.

So after readying everything it was my intention to do a N244 - pending variation order and N245 (N244 being more important), due to the fact I am not in a position to pay this. (on low income, self employed, 2 young children) I also rang the original court who awarded the claim (Basildon County Court Essex), and asked them to provide all the dates for me.

having slept on it all, I then decided to seek advice of the National Debt line, and spoke to someone today, and who basically said if I had contacted the HCEO to discuss a payment plan, to which I had at this point.

So today at 14.30 Rang Burlington Group, and spoke to a representative. explained that I had received this letter (I mentioned nothing to him about my plans of N244/5). I asked if there was a payment plan that I could make. He immediately said yes we can offer that, which I was actually shocked to hear, I presumed there wouldn't be. I explained to him I am on a low income, I do not have flash cars (Y reg Beetle) im in rented accommodation, and do receive some benefits. He said that's ok, but he would still need to come to the house in order to 'TAKE CONTROL' and arrange a payment plan. My argument was but I do not have to let you in, he agreed, and said he could just take control of a watch i have on my wrist (sounded odd) and I said but how do I know my payment would be accepted. He then waffled off that they aren't about removing tvs etc etc as it costs too much money, however if there was a Monet painting on the wall, they would look to take that instead of a payment plan. Sounded fair. so my questions are:

i) Do i have to let them in to agree a payment plan

ii) Him attending, would this be Enforcement stage 1 fee added to the cost

ii) if he takes control of items (for instance my watch) will that give him the authority he need to come back again and enter the house

iii) Is what he said on the phone correct - i really need advice.

I asked what would happen if my offer is not accepted by the claimant (which it may not be)he said if i do not have anything of worth and he can see i don't, to which i reiterated that he wouldn't be let inside the house, then the case would be closed and sent back to the claimant stating they couldn't collect.

I'm worried and concerned that they want to come here to arrange payment plan, why can this not be done via the telephone. I'm thinking is it a tactic to get into the house, im being very cautious.

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance.

Can anyone help at all?

Hi and welcome to cag.

I'm sure you'll get help before too long. I think you're right that you should be able to arrange this without anyone coming to your home, but wait and see what the more knowledgeable have to say.

Can anyone help at all?

Whilst it is understandable that you are worried and are keen on advice, you may need to bear in mind the experts here are volunteers, and many have day jobs.

Posting at 15:57 (system time), and then 17:00 suggests you expect an answer within an hour or so.

It'd be great if someone was able to help in that timeframe (& apologies but I don't feel I know enough in that field to give you a reliable answer), BUT (for the reasons above) if you want an answer that quickly you may need to go and pay for formal legal advice : if you want an answer free, here, you may need to give the volunteers a chance to respond, when they can fit it into their lives.

That said, I hope you get a reply soon!

Hello All,

 

 

I have been reading through this Forum as of yesterday trying to get as much information as possible, and its been a fantastic help. But I now direct help if that is possible. I will try to keep this factual, and short.

 

 

Received an enforcement letter yesterday from 'Burlington Group' (based in camberly) is for a sum of £3746.75 plus interest of £1.64, compliance stage fee £90, totalling £3838.39.

 

 

This 'writ of control' was issued on 23rd April 2015. However the original judgment was on 23rd Dec 2010.

 

 

I was aware of this judgment nearly 5 years ago, and fought the claimant regarding this, however it was awarded to him. When I came to paying the debt, I had an informal 'chat' with the claimant (4.5 years ago) stating that I was not in a position to pay it, and in fact I didn't owe it. From this he didn't persue it any further...... which tbh I totally forgot all about it, until I received the letter yesterday completely out of the blue.

 

 

So worried and shocked I thought I would do some research, and came across this wonderful forum, and reading lots all day yesterday way in the small hours. I had not contacted the Enforcement company at all yesterday.

 

 

So after readying everything it was my intention to do a N244 - pending variation order and N245 (N244 being more important), due to the fact I am not in a position to pay this. (on low income, self employed, 2 young children) I also rang the original court who awarded the claim (Basildon County Court Essex), and asked them to provide all the dates for me.

 

 

having slept on it all, I then decided to seek advice of the National Debt line, and spoke to someone today, and who basically said if I had contacted the HCEO to discuss a payment plan, to which I had at this point.

 

 

 

 

So today at 14.30 Rang Burlington Group, and spoke to a representative. explained that I had received this letter (I mentioned nothing to him about my plans of N244/5). I asked if there was a payment plan that I could make. He immediately said yes we can offer that, which I was actually shocked to hear, I presumed there wouldn't be. I explained to him I am on a low income, I do not have flash cars (Y reg Beetle) im in rented accommodation, and do receive some benefits. He said that's ok, but he would still need to come to the house in order to 'TAKE CONTROL' and arrange a payment plan. My argument was but I do not have to let you in, he agreed, and said he could just take control of a watch i have on my wrist (sounded odd) and I said but how do I know my payment would be accepted. He then waffled off that they aren't about removing tvs etc etc as it costs too much money, however if there was a Monet painting on the wall, they would look to take that instead of a payment plan. Sounded fair. so my questions are:

 

 

i) Do i have to let them in to agree a payment plan no

ii) Him attending, would this be Enforcement stage 1 fee added to the cost yes

ii) if he takes control of items (for instance my watch) will that give him the authority he need to come back again and enter the house yes

iii) Is what he said on the phone correct - i really need advice.

 

 

I asked what would happen if my offer is not accepted by the claimant (which it may not be)he said if i do not have anything of worth and he can see i don't, to which i reiterated that he wouldn't be let inside the house, then the case would be closed and sent back to the claimant stating they couldn't collect.

 

 

I'm worried and concerned that they want to come here to arrange payment plan, why can this not be done via the telephone. I'm thinking is it a tactic to get into the house, im being very cautious.

 

 

Any help or advice will be greatly appreciated, Thanks in advance.

Hi ..... It is easy for you to say 'I have nothing worth taking' but since they will not simply take your word for it you are you are between a rock and a hard place.

Basically you can refuse to allow them into your home then make a proposal to a payment plan in writing to the HCEO and submit a Common Financial Statement to support the amount you see to be affordable to you. They in turn must pass your offer to the creditor for acceptance. BUT they would be obliged to inform the creditor they have not been able to gain access to establish there are rubens paintings on the walls or a bentley parked in the garage.

If you fail to have your offer accepted the only other option open to you would be a n N245 variation order to the Court, once again you will need to provide evidence your offer is the only amount affordable to you.(CFS). Should you decide to put your offer through the Court I would strongly advise you also request a stay of execution to the writ pending the outcome of your application.

Hi and welcome to CAG

Have you contacted the original creditor (OC) to inform them you are on a low income? Are you in receipt of benefits at all?

Have you any idea when this was transferred up to the High Court?

If you intend to apply for a N245 then you should do so straight away, see here

https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-debt/if-you-do-owe-the-money-pay-the-judgment

You can apply for a reduction of costs by completing an EX160a see here http://hmctsformfinder.justice.gov.uk/HMCTS/GetForm.do?court_forms_id=4396

Have a read of these forms and pop back to update the thread

No you don't have to let them in, but if you have not got enough goods to take control of then you could decide to let them in and report back to the creditor you cannot afford to pay.

The HCEO will want to take control of a car if you have one so please be careful if you have one.

Since you are on a low income you could be classed as vulnerable for enforcement purposes. see the sticky here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?421867-Taking-Control-of-Goods-National-Standards-2014

I would also be looking to why this case has taken so long to get enforced and transferred up to the High Court

Yes totally appreciate what you are saying... Just panicking unfortunately

Thank you so much for this information

Hi and welcome to CAG

 

 

Have you contacted the original creditor (OC) to inform them you are on a low income? Are you in receipt of benefits at all? - I do not have his contact detail at all, nor was they given to me

 

Have you any idea when this was transferred up to the High Court? - 23rd April 2015 ! - i checked with county court today

 

 

If you intend to apply for a N245 then you should do so straight away, see here - I have filled this in ready to send, however i was teying the route of contacting the HCEO first, but not letting them know my intentions

 

 

You can apply for a reduction of costs by completing an EX160a see here

Have a read of these forms and pop back to update the thread - thank you, through this great site, i found that information out lastnight, which is something i havelooked into

 

 

No you don't have to let them in, but if you have not got enough goods to take control of then you could decide to let them in and report back to the creditor you cannot afford to pay. I can honestly say i do not have anything of worth, nothing substantial to clear a debt like that. my car is only worth around £600 (Y reg beetle) no gadets, an 8yr old laptop, 4 year TV, no gadgets, a sofa that's 2 yrs old, but is in my mums name. i literally have nothing of worth.

 

 

The HCEO will want to take control of a car if you have one so please be careful if you have one. - ok thank you for that information. Even tough is not worth a lot of money?, considering if it was to be taken away the actualy cost implication would be huge and they would gain nothing from it?

 

 

Since you are on a low income you could be classed as vulnerable for enforcement purposes. see the sticky here - I did not know anything about this, thank you for sharing and i will most certainly look at this tonight

How do i challenge this? in court if i end up going down the N244/5 route?

I would also be looking to why this case has taken so long to get enforced and transferred up to the High Court

In order for the HCEO to 'take control', does the 'take control' part only come into play if i actually sign something?

Basically im trying to establish that say for instance: HCEO come to house, i don't let him in, we talk, i show him benefits letters through a window, i propose a payment plan of £xxx every week/month, at this point i gather he has to contact the claimant to get an answer. If offer is not accepted, have i already given them the right to come back and keep chasing as i have already spoken to him, and at this point has he already taken control OR do i have to sign something in order for him to take control but only IFs a payment plan is in place first?

Im sorry if i seem little dim, im worried sick at what may happen now.

Also, surely it would be better if i offer my payment plan to them via the telephone or email for them to put that forward to the claimant first before coming to my house? otherwise im then going to be charged the first stage fee, with them not evening knowing if they are going to get a payment plan from me, as they have already been advised they will not be allowed into the property.

MickeyMack2002,

Having just read the document on Vulnerbility, are you, or anyone else able to clarify this:

72. Enforcement agents must withdraw from domestic premises if the only person

present is, or appears to be, under the age of 16 or is deemed to be vulnerable

by the enforcement agent; they can ask when the debtor will be home - if

appropriate.

73. Enforcement agents must withdraw without making enquiries if the only persons

present are children who appear to be under the age of 12.

Am i right in thinking that if i am at home in my property with just my two children (7&5), they have to leave my property immediately? or have i got that totally wrong?

Whilst it is understandable that you are worried and are keen on advice, you may need to bear in mind the experts here are volunteers, and many have day jobs.

 

Posting at 15:57 (system time), and then 17:00 suggests you expect an answer within an hour or so.

It'd be great if someone was able to help in that timeframe (& apologies but I don't feel I know enough in that field to give you a reliable answer), BUT (for the reasons above) if you want an answer that quickly you may need to go and pay for formal legal advice : if you want an answer free, here, you may need to give the volunteers a chance to respond, when they can fit it into their lives.

 

That said, I hope you get a reply soon!

Good post Bazza

Good post Bazza

I have apologised and understand what was said, just panicking - sorry

MickeyMack2002,

 

 

Having just read the document on Vulnerbility, are you, or anyone else able to clarify this:

 

 

72. Enforcement agents must withdraw from domestic premises if the only person present is, or appears to be, under the age of 16 or is deemed to be vulnerable by the enforcement agent; they can ask when the debtor will be home - if appropriate.

 

 

73. Enforcement agents must withdraw without making enquiries if the only persons present are children who appear to be under the age of 12.

 

Am i right in thinking that if i am at home in my property with just my two children (7&5), they have to leave my property immediately? or have i got that totally wrong?

Sadly you are incorrect. Regulations 72 and 73 apply where the ONLY people in the property are children of a certain age.

I was about to ask for some history as to the origins of the debt so can we please have some history on this.

Some will advise that you don't have to let them in others will say since you have nothing of value or would not cover the debt and fees then let them in, the choice is yours but most will say don't let them in. But a word of warning though if you let them in the can gain peaceful entry at any time in the future.

It would be prudent to record any and all conversations via a mobile phone then store them online for future needs.

Sadly you are incorrect. Regulations 72 and 73 apply where the ONLY people in the property are children of a certain age.

Ok, thank you very much for the right information, much appreciated.

There is something niggling me about the amount of time this has been left

If you want to stop the HCEO then the right route is via the N245 do this then see what happens or there is the N244 route if you don't owe the money as stated in your first post why didn't you pursue this action via the N244 route?

With the enforcement of a writ of control (for an unpaid CCJ that has been transferred to a High Court Officer to enforce) the statutory regulations (The Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014) provide that unless a debtor pays in full at the compliance stage, the enforcement agent is obliged to visit the debtor in every High Court case thereby triggering the first enforcement stage fee of £190 plus 7.5%

The reason for this is because the HCEO has a personal obligation to the creditor.

In your case, the officer is obliged by law to visit and at that visit, you are not under an obligation to allow the officer into your home (and I would not recommend that you do) and a payment proposal can be set up.

I was about to ask for some history as to the origins of the debt so can we please have some history on this. - Sure, It was from a previous landlord, basically i had moved back from France to UK, and rented a property. Made improvements to the property at our own cost with prior arrangement via private landlord. Completely renovated the Garden etc etc, basically 1 month after we done this, we was told he wont be renewing our contract, as his daughter had just been evicted from her house and needed a place to stay. He gave us 4 weeks notice! - i withheld last months rentaldue to him not abiding by contract. He turns up on day of moving out with 4 men, and give me 2 hrs to clear house out. Managed to do it, however was not hable to clean up. From this, he then filed a Money online claim saying that i owed 1 months rent, he had to get a cleaner in and pay them over £1000 (ludicrous amount) to clean, put patio slabs down, and made up random items to make up the value. I received the claim at our new address in 2010, and sent all my information back to the court to say i dispute it. (Court received it on 3rd Nov) - from that hearing was set, i attended, as did he, and basically it all got aired. The judge partially ruled in his favour because apparently i should have paid the rent regardless. So the totally amount was £3746.75. A few weeks later i contact him to talk to him regarding this, and say i can not afford it, and he never pursued it any further. I stayed at the address for another 1 1/1 year where the claim was filed, then i moved to the address i live now which i have lived in for 3 years, and only yesterday was the first time i have heard anything from him since 2010 ! - i rang the county court that made the judgment and explained the situation, and she was able to tell me that this new Writ was granted on 23rd April 2015.

 

 

Some will advise that you don't have to let them in others will say since you have nothing of value or would not cover the debt and fees then let them in, the choice is yours but most will say don't let them in. But a word of warning though if you let them in the can gain peaceful entry at any time in the future. - I did think i may has well let them in as i have nothing of that value, but then read on this site that it entitles them to return and gain entry at any given time, so will not be letting them in, and have advised them of this, albeit a payment plan is put in place or not.

 

 

It would be prudent to record any and all conversations via a mobile phone then store them online for future needs.

Did you see a copy of the Writ? if so what is/was the address on it?

There is something niggling me about the amount of time this has been left - You and me both ! - i don't understand it, i live in the same down, ok different address, but i have been at my current address for 3 years, and the previous address nearly 1 1/2 AFTER the claim.

 

 

If you want to stop the HCEO then the right route is via the N245 do this then see what happens or there is the N244 route if you don't owe the money as stated in your first post why didn't you pursue this action via the N244 route?

With the enforcement of a writ of control (for an unpaid CCJ that has been transferred to a High Court Officer to enforce) the statutory regulations (The Taking Control of Goods (Fees) Regulations 2014) provide that unless a debtor pays in full at the compliance stage, the enforcement agent is obliged to visit the debtor in every High Court case thereby triggering the first enforcement stage fee of £190 plus 7.5%

 

The reason for this is because the HCEO has a personal obligation to the creditor.

 

 

 

 

In your case, the officer is obliged by law to visit and at that visit, you are not under an obligation to allow the officer into your home (and I would not recommend that you do) and a payment proposal can be set up.

Thank you, that's what i needed to know. so basically i can talk to him through a window, perhaps show him some benefits documents to prove i cant paid that amount, suggest a payment plan, then its up to the claimant from there - is that correct?

If the claimant then decided to take my offer of £xxxper week/month - is it only then that i sign anything - like a 'take control' document?

Did you see a copy of the Writ? if so what is/was the address on it?