Hi All. I live in Wales and have been in a wheelchair for the past 6 years.

I receive DLA (higher rates),

ESA (support group), and

housing benefit.

I recently received a letter from the DWP demanding a refund for 'overpaid' ESA even though my cirumstances haven't changed

and my only income is from my benefits.

I have been trying to save somethig each month, and my combined ISA and current account have gone over the £6000 capital limit imposed by the DWP.

I was under the impression that benefits received, particularly DLA, did not count as income for this purpose.

Can anyone say where I went wrong?

Any income is only disregarded for the period it is paid for. I.e. DLA paid four weekly, anything not spent after four weeks is capital, same for ESA paid fortnightly, not spent within that period, becomes capital.

Any income is only disregarded for the period it is paid for. I.e. DLA paid four weekly, anything not spent after four weeks is capital, same for ESA paid fortnightly, not spent within that period, becomes capital.

Thanks for the quick reply. So, rather than saving up for a £5000 power heelchair, I have to spend it quickly (on stuff I may not need) to avoid going over the capital limit? That's just insane.

if your capital has gone over £6k - you could buy the £5k wheelchair - which will bring your capital down below the threshold again

True enough, provided I don't wish to buy food,

pay my utility bills, fuel my car or continue paying off the finance on it!

I'll join the waiting list for an NHS wheelchair

- I was going to save them money by buying my own,

so this rather pointless policy seems a bit of a false economy in my case.

:RustyWheels:

Generally, benefits do count as income. Some benefits (including disability living and some lump sum arrears of benefits) are disregarded as income for calculating entitlement to income related benefits. But income other than earnings, which benefits are, becomes capital at the end of the time period it's paid for. Not a problem for most people cos usually claimants are waiting for the benefit to pay for care, or the leccie bill!

Unfortunately I can't see any way out of repaying this unintentional overpayment. Anyone else who can, please shout.

Take care if you decide to go on a spending spree. A few bathroom/kitchen aids to make you more independent, or a subscription to a leisure activity, or a holiday which makes you feel better should be acceptable. A designer wardrobe or giving money to family/friends may be seen as deprivation of income in order to claim extra benefit.

Best wishes, Margaret.

:RustyWheels:

Although it's a big expense, would a powered chair make your life easier? To me, disability living/a personal independence payment is all about using it to improve quality of life.

Margaret.

Thanks.

So my DLA is disregarded unless I try to save it.

I'm not planning on having a spree, just saving up for a powered wheelchair (which is rather the point of DLA)

instead of joining an 18-month waiting list and making the NHS pay for one.

Still, coming up with false economies like that keeps some civil servants in their jobs,

I suppose. I'm feeling a little bitter about this, as you may be able to tell.

If there is a welfare benefits advisor locally (try CAB, your local council) I would get advice before giving up on this. Whilst technically you may have gone over the capital limit, there may be some way around it if you can show that it was saved for such a disability specifc purpose. If you can't find anyone locally, other sources of advice might be a help group or charity specifically related to your condition or disability in general.

If you get DLA, could you not get a wheelchair through Motability? Unless of course you're already using your allowance to pay for a car.

Hi Margaret,

Getting around in a manual wheelchair is a miserable experience. Things I didn't even notice when not disabled become massive issues. Getting over the slightest bump takes a surprisingly big effort and kerbs are impossible. Even carpets try to push you off track due to their 'grain'. And as for going out to the shops, well, apart from the obvious ease-of-mobility issues, I'm using both hands to move the chair. What do I use to pick items off the shelves? And how do I open 'pull' doors? A powered wheelchair would give me one free hand back. These things aren't obvious until you come across them yourself.

R.

I think getting some advice is excellent, er, advice. I am getting the motability component of DLA, but I bought a (vastly overpriced) car that's been adapted with a power ramp (lifts once I'm inside) and motorbike-style tiller controls (so I can drive from my wheelchair). I have to top up the paymets. A car is essential in the wilder parts of Wales.

£6000 and over 'in the bank' affects income related benefits (ESA I assume you are on income related) so it will be the amount over the £6000 thats causing the issue.

If brought under the £6000 threshold then there is no issue and any overpayment if its only just over the threshold should be pretty small.

When on income related benefits, anything over £6000 worth of savings has to be declared to the DWP.

DMG,

This is what triggered the demand. They count each £250 over £6000 as providing £1 per week income (what planet are they on?), and have asked for a repayment for a two-year period where I've had approx £7k capital - a bill for over £400 I wasn't expecting. And to stop them charging me even more in the future, I have to spend enough to drop down to £6k totalled over my savings and current accounts. This ridiculous rule actively discourages financial prudence such as saving - that's what I'm confused about.

I fully understand, the problem is its a blanket rule and covers everyone doesn't it and has been this way for a very long time.

There isn't anything you can do at all, apart from keep it under the £6000 otherwise they will keep charging so to speak.

The only note of caution I can add RE: Spending Spree.

Expenditure will need to be justified to the DWP to combat the accusation of Disposing Capital to qualify for benefits. A CAB adviser should be able to hep with that.

Morally, i agree, saving for an aid that helps you due to illness/disability should not impact.

Wonder if there is a way to pay monthly on the equipments?

That's the conclusion I've come to as well. Just put up with their ludicrous effective interest rate (since when did £250 earn anyone £1 per week?) and try to keep below £6000 capital. This is really Orwellian.

Monthly payments would be a good suggestion to avoid saving up a large amount.

But my problem is not really in paying for a wheelchair, it's the unexpected demand for repayment of benefits to which I genuinely believed I was entitled. They don't exactly make it clear on their forms that the capital cut-off is £6000. I do remember a question asking if I had £16k savings (in which case the application would be refused), but not £6k. I've only been able to save up that amount using my perfectly legal benefit income, and now they want it back. I should have spent it on more expensive stuff rather than furnishing my flat with cheap second-hand items from ebay!

That's the conclusion I've come to as well. Just put up with their ludicrous effective interest rate (since when did £250 earn anyone £1 per week?) and try to keep below £6000 capital. This is really Orwellian.

£1 per week is not the expected weekly rate of earning on £250. It is the rate at which you are expected to deplete your capital in order to meet your basic living needs - if your capital exceeds £6000, of course.

£1 per week is not the expected weekly rate of earning on £250. It is the rate at which you are expected to deplete your capital in order to meet your basic living needs - if your capital exceeds £6000, of course.

Thanks for clearing up that bit of confusion. It seems to me that they are going to take it from you regardles of whether or not you spend it on living needs. Telling them you have >£6k will get you a refund demand; not telling them will get a refund demand and possibly a fine and/or fees on top of that. This seems to be a capricious way of capping the savings of people who are trying to be prudent with their income. I accept that it is intended to filter out new benefit applications by people who already have substantial savings, but it has the collateral effect of penalising people who are trying to be financially prudent with their entitlements. The argument seems to be "if you have £6k you're not entitled to anything more". This logic says that I should go to Waitrose rather than Lidl so I won't have anything to save at the end of the month. It simply doesn't make sense to me.

means tested benefits are intended to provide assistance to those with insufficient income and capital to support themselves

capital below £6,000 does not affect benefit entitlement (£10k for pensioners)

however if a person has capital above this level, the benefit scheme deems them as being able to use some of their capital to support themselves, e.g. a working age person with capital of £7,000 is deemed to be able to afford to use £4 pw towards their living costs

if a person has capital in excess of £16,000, they are deemed not to require any assistance as they have sufficient capital to support themselves (this limit does not apply to guarantee credit)

True enough, provided I don't wish to buy food, pay my utility bills, fuel my car or continue paying off the finance on it! I'll join the waiting list for an NHS wheelchair - I was going to save them money by buying my own, so this rather pointless policy seems a bit of a false economy in my case.

If you are on the DLA high rate for mobility you do not need to finance your own car you can get one from Motability all you pay is the fuel, they take xx-xx from your DLA mobility part to pay for the car. Which would be BRAND NEW every three years....

If you are on the DLA high rate for mobility you do not need to finance your own car you can get one from Motability all you pay is the fuel, they take xx-xx from your DLA mobility part to pay for the car. Which would be BRAND NEW every three years....

it depends upon the car you want/need - for some vehicles, you have to pay a premium on top of your DLAm

Thanks for the info.

I bought the car whilst still in hospital (after 11 months!) and didn't know / couldn't find out about much of the available help since I was flat on my back and staring at the ceiling. I am spending my mobility DLA component plus a bit extra on the car at the moment. I'll look into any premium I might be entitled to, but I'm already able to save a little each month, so probably won't apply for it.

I'm just amazed that there are restrictions on what I can spend my money on. Is there a list of what spending is acceptable to the government? And what legislation enforces this? I was under the impression that (for DLA at least) there are no restrictions on spending, despite the 'care' and 'mobility' monickers. I guess this is why they've specifically demanded a rebate on my ESA even though it all goes into the same bank account. There is very poor communication between the ESA and DLA people - I informed the DLA guys of a change of address and got a stroppy letter from the ESA people complaining that I hadn't informend them of a change in circumstances, which is what prompted all of this in the first place. Their website simply states I had to inform rhe DWP, which I had done - it's not my fault the two offices don't communicate!

With absolute apologies, I'm somewhat baffled. The OP has, frugally, saved up and inadvertently taken themselves over the £6k limit. They have been presented with a bill for £400 which, whilst unexpected, can be paid. They want an electric wheelchair which costs £5k. They can afford this having saved up. The purchase of which would take them well under the £6k limit and, now they understand it is there, they can keep within it. What have I missed?

With absolute apologies, I'm somewhat baffled. The OP has, frugally, saved up and inadvertently taken themselves over the £6k limit. They have been presented with a bill for £400 which, whilst unexpected, can be paid. They want an electric wheelchair which costs £5k. They can afford this having saved up. The purchase of which would take them well under the £6k limit and, now they understand it is there, they can keep within it. What have I missed?

You have missed nothing