just as an aside, carpet generally has a useful rental life of up to 10 years... corded carpet less so, because it is thinner between the cords and wears out quicker, the hole you have described would be put as wear and tear by any carpet professional.

OK..here is a twist.

Saw the S21 letter today which was sent in dec 2014...it states that as per the S21 notice that was served on Sept 2013..she had until today to move...????

She says she doesnt recall any such letter in Sept 2013...that date coincides with the end of the 6 month assured tenancy.

Has he worked a fast one?

How does this work..?

Sept 2013?? cant be valid if you had an AST after that date?

What was the date of last AST?

Hi raydetinu, the AST was 6 months after which it would continue on a month by month basis.

The end of that AST would be Sept 2013 but she says she didnt receive any letter to that effect.

I am beginning to wonder if the sneaky landlord had this written into his contract.

Hi raydetinu, the AST was 6 months after which it would continue on a month by month basis.

The end of that AST would be Sept 2013 but she says she didnt receive any letter to that effect.

I am beginning to wonder if the sneaky landlord had this written into his contract.

I've known LL's to get T to sign S21 at signing of the Tenancy agreement.... Could this be what he's done ?

Then its not valid then as it would had to be enforced when she did not move out at the end of the initial AST contract.

Continuing as a PST is in fact a new contract on the same terms. So LL would have to issue a new S21 ( with correct dates on it ).

Anyway that is irrelevant now as your daughter accepted that the LL wanted to terminate the Contract and you have handed the keys back by mutual agreement.

So you will just have to wait and see what action, if any, he is going to take.

Post #31 has inaccurate information in it. A s21 has no end date, bar the tenancy ending (i.e. by tenant moving out), a court ordering possession or a new AST being created. An AST turning into a PST does not require service of a new s21.

Lea..... so he does still have to give 2 months notice though when he wants to take posession?? otherwise any time after the SPT has begun he could say "out now"

Are they not different S21 forms for during an AST period and after when a PST? but both have to have the notice period and date tenant has to leave by?

So unless LL wants tenant out at the end of the AST contract, whats the point? might as well issue a new S21? rather than a letter invoking the original one! with correct notice period etc.

As in this case LL would have to prove they sent it originally, as tenant does not acknowledge it existed!

raydetinu, Lea HTH is correct IMO. LL can serve precautionary s21b at start of AST (provided any deposit protected within 30 days), and it remains valid for duration of that AST fixed term and any subs SPT.

S21b is reqd if served during fixed term, s21a reqd if served during SPT (with 'after' repo action date), though basic s21b can be used in SPT IF there was an initial fixed term (no date reqd).

CCs, 2 months Notice is deemed served when s21 conditions have been met, no further Notice reqd, but LL cannot just say 'Ger out'; s21 is not a NTQ, only allows LL to seek Court Repo Order.

The later LL letter could be seen as advisory, or an indication that LL may seek Court costs from T if they do not vacate voluntarily. IMO

Lea..... so he does still have to give 2 months notice though when he wants to take posession?? otherwise any time after the SPT has begun he could say "out now"

No. He's already given notice that when the fixed term is over he may want possession. He still has to go to court, but he doesn't have to serve any further notice.

Are they not different S21 forms for during an AST period and after when a PST? but both have to have the notice period and date tenant has to leave by?

So unless LL wants tenant out at the end of the AST contract, whats the point? might as well issue a new S21? rather than a letter invoking the original one! with correct notice period etc.

As in this case LL would have to prove they sent it originally, as tenant does not acknowledge it existed!

A s21(b) can be served and remains valid until the tenancy ends (when tenant moves out), or a new AST is created. A periodic tenancy makes no difference to the s21(b) served at any time during the fixed term - and doesn't invalidate any s21(b) served.

No need to issue a letter either. The original s21 will do.

If the LL was savvy enough to serve the s21, you can bet he has some form of proof it was served (a signature on his copy for example).

Lea I appreciate you have a good understanding of this S21 situation, but how would a tenant know when they have to leave, if on a PST, unless LL writes and invokes the S21 issued a year before?

Not too savvy as I understand LL only gave tenant one months notice in letter!

Always learning.

Lea I appreciate you have a good understanding of this S21 situation, but how would a tenant know when they have to leave, if on a PST, unless LL writes and invokes the S21 issued a year before?

Not too savvy as I understand LL only gave tenant one months notice in letter!

Always learning.

Sometimes only when the court papers come through - and then they say they didn't receive the s21, only to find they signed for it when they signed the tenancy agreement. However, most landlords will indicate that they are expecting the tenant to move, and obviously if the s21 has been served already, there's no need for that indication to be anything other than a heads up that proceedings will begin, so the month given in this case is fine - so long as the s21 was actually served.

Wow! That does not sound fair at all! As Tenant has a false sense of security, if continuing with PST and LL has not said anything and continues with let.

A ticking time bomb!

Lea, Thanks for that.

Its getting worse.......He wants the entire house redecorated at our expense as well as the carpets.

Have not yet seen the contract but he claims its contractual....seems yet another little clause to avoid his responsibilities under the Landlords and Tenants act.

This is in the act.....

The tenant would not normally be required to re-decorate the property at the end of the tenancy unless stated in the agreement. If the property’s interior decoration had been damaged the tenant may be required to re-decorate the property, or the landlord may retain some of the deposit to cover re-decoration costs.

If a tenant did want to re-decorate the property they should always seek the landlord's permission first and find out what changes they are entitled to make.

If the property is in need of decoration as a result of normal use and wear and tear then the landlord is responsible for re-decorating and should not retain any of the tenant’s deposit.

I'm starting to feel like my home is on the line now...no wonder he insists on a home owning guarantor each time...easier to rob us blind with the threat of a CCJ and charging order.

I could manage a small amount of money but this looks like its going to run into many thousands.

I am seriously worried now.

I would say that LL is using the threat of court action to get anything he waqnts out of you by coercion. The reality is that things dont last for ever and that he gets a tax break on everything he spends on decorating so it is double bubble for him . If you think that this is going to actually happen then speak to a lawyer about "betterment" as well as LL responsibilites.

I am certain he is hoping most will cave in at the prospect of court action.

I fully intend to fight the excessive demands and hopefully challenge some on OFT rulings that a clause must be fair to be legal, ie penalty charges, future rent etc.

Do you have Legal cover on your Home Insurance ?

OP is only G, so his legal cover may only pay for defending a claim made against him/her. Now if T had contents Is with LP, then it may cover Ts claim against LL etc.

In an early post OP mentioned T was due to end about now. Was that end of fixed term, expiry of LL notice (s21?) or Court appointed date for repo Order?

Let's concentrate on current status of T more than LLs demands.

The reason for requiring a property-owning G is that as a final resort LL can but a charge (equal to Gs Court-approved liability) on Gs property- repayable when sold.

The fact OP has been paying LL demands so far, relates more to fact T is dau and wish to keep an unblemished istory for her.

The solution lies mainly with T, give due Notice now.

Tenancy ended on 21st.

Gave notice, to quit in late December...letter said S21 was served in Sept 2013. AST started in March 2013.

Demands were a pre exit inspection.

The reasonable ones have been met but replacing carpets, redecorating house etc have not...plus he want future rent as he says he cannot let out property until redecorated etc....

I took pics on day we left...damp all over the house coming through the walls with paint peeling off in places.

Have restored two rooms to original colour as they had been painted in a different colour with LL permission on proviso they were returned on exit.

Done minor repairs such as replaced a damaged architrave but refused to replace carpets or redecorate house.

Has he given a total amount he is demanding?

As you have left it is up to him to do what he has to, to re let; he must mitigate any loss he thinks he may have.

Suggest you wait until you get the court claim and let a judge decide what's fair.

OK...here's an update.

Received a demand for £2744.71 payable by 27th.

He has fully redecorated the house, replaced all carpets plus vinyl flooring..(Not even mentioned on original demand)

Fitted new oven and hob......(hob just needed a clean on the demand...this was done)

Charged for filling holes in the walls...we filled the ones we caused fitting a stairgate but the others were there when daughter moved in (Got pics)

Charged for 6 weeks lost rent.

This bit really gets my goat...charged for 2 smoke alarms.......the ones in the house were not working so the fire brigade fitted 2 new ones a year ago when they were down the street doing free checks.

Charged for replacing a door that was in a sorry state when daughter took the house on..again got pics.

Charged for cleaning the house when it was a damp ****hole with mould and damp coming through the plaster.

On a plus note, got my local councillors involved who are horrified at his charges.

I have a meeting with them and council officers next week to see if they can help but I am still going to have to pay for legal help if I need it.

I am trying to draft a response where I will refute his charges but I need the sections of law relevant to the issues.

As I understand it, redecoration and repairs for wear and tear are his responsibility but I cannot find the relevant section in the Landlords and Tenants Act.

Any other pointers appreciated.

Thanks

BF

Hi Belaflat,

I can't see anywhere in your thread about whether your daughter had a tenancy agreement, although you say that the landlord claims that all his demands are contractual.

Does she have one? You, as guarantor should have seen the agreement so that you were aware of what you were guaranteeing.

My son had a nightmare with a demanding landlady who tried to keep a large sum from his deposit. Fortunately it was protected and we had to put in a dispute which ended in her being granted a very small sum.

Has he provided receipts for all the work that has been done to justify the amount he is claiming?

Hi Dotty50.

It was a 6 months AST which converted to a rolling monthly contract.

I did countersign but do not have a copy now.

All receipts have been provided but my argument is not regarding the cost but the liability as repairs due to wear and tear and redecoration are his responsibility although I will wager some of the receipts are likely to be bogus....(friends etc....I have been checking)

I Also dispute work being carried which has never been previously mentioned..