Hi,

I made a SAR to a debt collection company for specific documents pertaining to a debt dating back to 2009.

The debt has been passed to numerous companies in the preceding years.

I specifically asked for:

1. Copy of the original signed, alleged credit agreement(s).

2. Any and all alleged Default Notices (DNs).

3. Any and all, signed and dated Notices of Assignment (NoA) between all parties, at any time.

4. Details of the recorded delivery of NoAs and DNs (iaw Law of Property Act 1925)

5. Disclosure of any indication or notes which have either caused or resulted in that manual intervention, or other evidence of that manual intervention.

6. Provide any underwriting sheet or other document containing any commission payments relating to the above account.

They have failed to provide items 3, 4 5 & 6.

They dispute any requirement to provide item 4 and maintain they are only obliged under Data Protection Act (DPA)

to provide information they hold and I should contact the original lender for outstanding documents.

From the information they have provided the DN does not provide a specific date for resolution, stating ’14 days’.

Additionally,

the DN figure quoted is approximately £1,000 less than that currently being claimed.

The debt collection company claim they purchased the debt at the higher amount

and therefore this is the amount they are entitled to claim.

They are contacting the original lender to explain why there is a discrepancy between the two figures.

The debt collection company maintain that they have satisfied my SAR and that all disputes are resolved.

Any advice?

A SAR goes to the original creditor not a DCA as they rarely have the required info.

You will now need to SAR the Original Creditor and pay the fee again

This does not seem correct

"Additionally, the DN figure quoted is approximately £1,000 less than that currently being claimed.

The debt collection company claim they purchased the debt at the higher amount and therefore this is the amount they are entitled to claim.

They are contacting the original lender to explain why there is a discrepancy between the two figures.

The debt collection company maintain that they have satisfied my SAR and that all disputes are resolved."

Who is the current DCA and what is the nature of the debt, can you please give us more history to this please

Also since there is a discrepancy you need to dispute this and the account should go on hold again.

Then see what the correct SAR brings back ok?

Thanks Mickey,

DCA is DLC. I am wary of posting too much detail here

as I got stung in court three years ago when the claimant presented all of my thread!

I am willing to PM you, is this OK?.

The DCA has taken up the discrepancy with the original lender

It is better to keep the thread in the forum, as other posters will not see what is discussed in a PM

The information that really is needed is when, what and last payment/acknowledgement

I.e. CC/loan bank in 2006 last payment in 2009 just basics really but what is needed to advise better ok

Since there is an investigation this account should be on hold by the DCA until such a time as it is concluded in full..

But still sent off the SAR to the OC please, sending one to a DCA is a waste of money as in this case.

Did you have any fees applied to this debt? or is there any PPI involved?

I have put a request to the site team to look in on this post for you as well, I hope this is ok and you will get great advice as well.

In response to your PM you need to delete items from your inbox as it is full

MM

can we please have all the details

theres no need to hide anything

bar your pers details

dx

also it is worthy to note you appears be following FoTL advise

I'd drop that now

else you will become unstuck

dx

Thank you all for your responses. dx100uk - I do not understand your second comment.

A summary of the position:

To clarify,

I think the CCA is valid.

What is not valid is the difference in the outstanding balance as noted in the DN

(which I believe is defective as it does not require resolution by a specific date, only ’14-days’), and that being claimed today.

Further, there is no proof of all the required NoAs and certainly no record that NoAs were sent by registered post

(as required by the Law of Property Act 1925 s196.4).

Current DCA maintain that there is no requirement to send DNs and NoAs by registered post.

The account has been passed around various DCAs, including but not limited to:



Lewis Debt Recover

 Howard Cohen Solicitors

 Incasso

 Empingham Direct Legal & Collections

 Mercantile Bureau Ltd

 Ruthbridge

 Hillsden securities Ltd

In turn, each DCA has returned the account once I pointed out that I was in dispute and that their respective actions were,

in my opinion, contrary to CPUTR 2008. The exception is the current DCA who are pursuing me & my wife (joint account).

This leads me to believe that there are flaws somewhere (probably more than I have cited above), but I need help in identifying them.

I made a CCA request in May 2010 to the then DCA who failed to respond.

I submitted a SAR in November 2011 which again did not receive required response.

A subsequent ICO complaint in January 2012 was upheld in September 2012,

stating that the DCA had failed to pass the SAR to the original lender and therefore infringed the DPA.

The original lender maintains they subsequently satisfied the SAR in September 2012.

This is the point that current DCA are maintaining

– 'the outstanding dispute was therefore resolved'.

However, I have no record of receiving all the required documents.

I have asked current DCA for the letter that accompanied the alleged September 2012 response

and proof of postage/delivery which I am still waiting for.

I submitted another SAR to the current DCA in October 2014.

They have responded but not with all the documents I have requested.

In response I have asked for the provision of all documents listed in my post of 11:32 29.11.2014.

They maintain they are only responsible for providing documents and information they hold

and recommend I request the same from the original lender (contradicts ICO September 2012 advice).

I will now submit another SAR to the original lender in an attempt to recover outstanding documents

and proof that DNs and NoAs were sent by register post (for NoAs I believe the Law of Property Act 1925 applies).

I will check my records but believe the last payment on the account was made July 2009.

I may be able to argue ‘statute barred’ in August 2015.

However, when current DCA acknowledged receipt of my SAR and the £10.00 payment, they said in their letter.

‘Thank you for your letter…and payment of £10.00 for the above account…’

which leads me to believe they may claim the fee for the SAR was in fact a ‘payment’.

On 23rd February 2010 the original lender issued a DN for £23,773.16.

In May 2010 they issued a ‘final demand’ for £23,781.00.

Current DCA is claiming £24708.08. I am therefore disputing the amount claimed.

I believe the DN dated 23rd February 2010 is defective because it does not specify a date to remedy by.

It states: ‘To remedy the breach you must pay to us the total arrears of £2,650.13 within (14) days.’

It goes on to refer to actions before (and after) 'the date shown…’

My point is, there is no specific ‘Date Shown’ in the document.

It then lists a total amount outstanding, collection fees, default interest, interest to settlement

and gives a total amount to be paid of £23,773.16.

The document is therefore confusing, quoting significantly different figures (£2,650.13 v £23,773.16).

M

Thank you for updating your post with the information it will allow us to advise you better.

You may wish to consider posting up the CCA and your DF with pers removed and in a PDF format

Since you have posted this extra info it appears from this that you can now dispute the amount that they claim you owe, put in a formal complaint to the DCA this will put the account on hold, they can take up to 56 days to respond to you.

Next if the answer is not forth coming or not completed by this time escalate it to an Official complaint. Again the same rules apply

You may also want to start to read the FCA handbook especially CONC 7/8/13 from here http://fshandbook.info/FS/html/FCA/CONC/13

Further more stay off of the phone and do everything in writing keep all letters and proofs of postage/delivery if you send a statutory fee to the DCA/Creditor make sure you tell them that it is for the fee and no other purpose.

The SAR goes to the original creditor £10 fee 40 days to comply.A CCA request goes to the DCA fee £1-00 12+2 days to comply

This advice is correct "I submitted another SAR to the current DCA in October 2014. They have responded but not with all the documents I have requested. In response I have asked for the provision of all documents listed in my post of 11:32 29.11.2014. They maintain they are only responsible for providing documents and information they hold and recommend I request the same from the original lender (contradicts ICO )

A DCA will only have limited info anyway so was a waste but moving on now

Now you need to SAR the OC

Finally have you been getting statements of account each year from your creditor/DCA?

A final though if you own your current property the DCA "MAY" try to get a SD against you do not ignore this letter if you get one please post up for further advice as it will be time limited for you to defend

Thank you for updating your post with the information it will allow us to advise you better.

 

 

You may wish to consider posting up the CCA and your DF with pers removed and in a PDF format

Will do this in the next couple of days

Thx Monty the info will be useful we will wait for this to happen

Hi Mike,

I will write my letter of complaint and send it by recorded delivery in the next couple of days. I will check all document for statements of account for each and every year

Second paragraph of your post - what do you mean 'official complaint' who to?

How do I upload document s to this thread? Is it scan as an image and insert using the icon?

I do not own my own home

I will look for a post from DX for the guide, sorry had to pop out

Can you please confirm if DLC own the debt please

Ok thx to dx100uk for this guide follow these simple steps below to post a PDF to your post

HOW TO upload DOCUMENTS / IMAGES ON CAGi

IMMEDIATELY YOU DO NOT NEED 10 POSTS

.

IMPORTANT To protect your IDENTITY and ensure you remain ANONYMOUS on CAG

YOU MUST ensure that you REMOVE all Personal Information including Barcodes, Names, Addresses etc

.

ENSURE: To leave all Monetary Figures and Dates.

.

DO NOT USE A BIRO, PEN, SEE THRU TAPE OR LABELS TO EDIT THE INFORMATION

.

1. SCAN YOUR DOCUMENT

.

- Set your default scan page size to A4 less than 300 DPI (150 will do)

- Scan the required letters/agreements/sheets - as a picture (jpg) file

- Don't forget you can use a mobile phone or a digital camera too!!

.

- If you have multiple scans/pictures please put these into a WORD DOC first ensuring you have removed all Personal Information before converting to PDF.

.

- IPHONE ONLY: Take a picture and Convert to PDF via an APP

.

2. HOW TO EDIT (Remove Personal Information)

.

- Do this using MSPAINT.EXE or any Photo Editing program and ensure to save the document.

.

3. HOW TO CONVERT YOUR DOCUMENT TO PDF

.

- If you have OFFICE installed this has an installable PRINT to PDF option so use this and save as PDF.

- If you have PDF as an installed driver use this program and save as PDF.

.

OR Go to one of the many free online pdf converter websites:

.

- http://freejpgtopdf.com/

- http://www.convert-jpg-to-pdf.net/

- http://www.freepdfconvert.com/

- http://www.pdfmerge.com/

- http://www.primopdf.com/

.

PLEASE REMEMBER: It would be better to upload a Multi-page PDF rather than multiple Single PDFs.

.

4. BEFORE UPLOADING YOUR DOCUMENT ON CAG

.

- Logically Name your PDF File so Users know what it is. DO NOT NAME YOUR FILE USING BANK NAMES OR CAG IN THE TITLE

.

- For Example: Default Notice DD-MM-YYYY.

.

IMPORTANT To protect your IDENTITY and ensure you remain ANONYMOUS on CAG please ensure that you do a final check that all Personal Information including Barcodes, Names, Addresses etc. are REMOVED before carrying out the NEXT STEP

.

5. HOW TO UPLOAD YOUR DOCUMENT ON CAG

.

- In your Thread/Post open a new msg box here.

- Click 'Go Advanced' below the msg box.

- Click 'Manage Attachments' below that box.

- Click the 'Add Files' button on the top right.

- Click 'Select Files', navigate to your file(s) on your PC.

- Click 'Upload Files'.

.

- You DON’T have to put a link to the attachment in the msg box just upload it ……… JOB DONE

- You can click on your links to check them too!!

there is NO REQUIREMENT for NOA's or DN's to be sent by recorded delivery

and

SAR ALWAYS goes to the ORIGINAL CREDITOR

both of these are common rubbish

flouted by freedom of the land websites

along with all the mis-interpretation of the law of properties act

............

pers I'd be ignoring the dca's now until/unless they issue courtpapers.

you keep inviting letter tennis by sending silly letters

so they think you can be mugged

as you retort everytime.

as for the DN, the oc could simply issue a compliant one

but as they've sold it on?

theres no danger of that!

dx

Following protocol a formal complaint then an official complaint these go to who is dealing with your debt at this time, you will also need to find out who owns this debt and if it is still with the OC or if the DCA now owns this debt. A formal complaint should put the account on hold for up to 56 days, then they will inform you of their "investigations" if the info you get is not complete then write again to make it an official complaint the same time frame applies.

I would also check your credit file and save an up to date print out of it. This will show you what info is on there and who owns what debts if any.

You can sign up for a free 30 day trial for most but Noddle is free, here https://www.noddle.co.uk/ you will need to put in your addresses so you can get a fuller picture of how your rating is now. But you must cancel the free trial before it ends, or pay a fee of £2-00 to get one in the post, it is up to you what you use, butr you will need all the info that it contains

I will look for a post from DX for the guide, sorry had to pop out

 

 

Can you please confirm if DLC own the debt please

Yes. I have letters from DLC confirming they purchased the debt

I can confirm that I have on file a letter from a DCA dated 23rd August 2010 which shows a figure of £23,780.00. On 28th January 2011 a different DCA quotes £24,718.00. Current DCA claim £24,708.08.

I have a statement of account dated 18th October 2011, 31st August 2012 from the original lender. I have had no further statements of account since

you say joint ac ,so presumably a loan sold to dlc

probably the usual oc

copy noa easy to supply

post up the cca return and dn

so we can check

you say joint ac ,so presumably a loan sold to dlc

 

probably the usual oc

 

copy noa easy to supply

 

post up the cca return and dn

 

so we can check

Yes. Will post within the next couple of days. I would say that the CCA return is a poor copy (I will try and enhance as best I can)

Following protocol a formal complaint then an official complaint these go to who is dealing with your debt at this time, you will also need to find out who owns this debt and if it is still with the OC or if the DCA now owns this debt. A formal complaint should put the account on hold for up to 56 days, then they will inform you of their "investigations" if the info you get is not complete then write again to make it an official complaint the same time frame applies.

 

 

I would also check your credit file and save an up to date print out of it. This will show you what info is on there and who owns what debts if any.

 

 

You can sign up for a free 30 day trial for most but Noddle is free, here https://www.noddle.co.uk/ you will need to put in your addresses so you can get a fuller picture of how your rating is now. But you must cancel the free trial before it ends, or pay a fee of £2-00 to get one in the post, it is up to you what you use, butr you will need all the info that it contains

SAR to original lender drafted and being sent by recorded delivery Wednesday.

Letter of complaint to current DCA drafted and being sent by recorded delivery Wednesday.

just sit back and wait now will take up to 40 working days for it to come back

Original DN

PDF not very clear,

Also where are the rest of the T&C's?