Well today my new JC adviser had a bad start.

Just completing rapid reclaim. During the Claiment Commitment session she tried to force me onto UJM and giving her access using the line "Everybody will have to log their activities on this as we are doing away with the paper sheets"

After holding my ground and telling her under no uncertain terms is that correct I demanded she produce the legislation and guidance saying everyone had to use UJM and give access.

Then She went to her manager and then came back 5 minutes later saying that they will have to check the guidance and legislation. She said her manager said it was available to vie won the government website. I replied with "I know, Ive read it"

I said I would make my own paper sheets to record activities in. Then was the same attempt with the workplan booklet that ended the same way.

Just hope I pass this interview thing on Monday, I can see this being a running battle.

I feel for you I really do.

When ATOS cured my brain damage three years ago, and found me fit for work, after being on IB for the previous 7 years, I deliberately

refused to be put on JSA, as no-one would employ me due to my brain damage and the risk to other employees etc etc.

Even going to WFI, which I went to twice, the second time was when all of my social security had been stopped, I was told that there was no

need for me to attend anymore, as I wasn't getting any payments of social security??

Just another statistic, except one that isn't counted, unless they use me as one of their ''success stories''.

I hope your dealings with these authoritarian children are painless....

Then She went to her manager and then came back 5 minutes later saying that they will have to check the guidance and legislation. She said her manager said it was available to view on the government website. I replied with "I know, I've read it".

You might want to print out the key points of the guidance just in case you have to deal with this adviser again. It certainly sounds as if you a better informed than she or the manager is.... Perhaps worth asking if there are any vacancies in that office for someone who is familiar with current guidance (not forgetting to record it in your job search log).

 

You might want to print out the key points of the guidance just in case you have to deal with this adviser again. It certainly sounds as if you a better informed than she or the manager is.... Perhaps worth asking if there are any vacancies in that office for someone who is familiar with current guidance (not forgetting to record it in your job search log).

HAHA I did actually say I could do the job if they had one going lol

Good for you Sabresheep for a)knowing the guidance and b) standing up for yourself. Might be a good time now to start recording all your interviews with this adviser.

I know people get worried about advisers turning nasty once they class someone as a 'troublemaker' just because they know the rules, but I've always found the opposite; the advisers treat me very politely and extremely cautiously because they know I'm 'clued up'. I've even had other claimants remark that the advisers seem to treat me far better than they get treated, so it must be working!

Hopefully you've fired a few warning shots across the adviser's bows and she'll stick within the rules..keep that recorder running though.

As jasta says, if you know your stuff and go along 'armed' I find they are generally more scared of YOU rather than the other way around - I know when I claimed JSA I petrified my adviser knowing so much, that is why I had a relatively easy time with him and we actually grew quite close as in just signing on and not even bothering to check what I had done re looking for work - trust both ways etc. Then I started at INGEUS, it all changed (now on ESA)

As jasta says, if you know your stuff and go along 'armed' I find they are generally more scared of YOU rather than the other way around - I know when I claimed JSA I petrified my adviser knowing so much, that is why I had a relatively easy time with him and we actually grew quite close as in just signing on and not even bothering to check what I had done re looking for work - trust both ways etc. Then I started at INGEUS, it all changed (now on ESA)

So glad i got a fold over case for my s5. I actually managed to record the interview second half. Set it to record while she was talking to her manager

It was a real treat to read about the result of your recent session with JCP adviser. Not only have you shown her up to be an ignoramus incapable of doing her own job, or even knowing what it entails, you have also left her in no doubt that you are aware of what is involved and that you are not one to be intimidated or threatened into feebly succumbing to her whims.

I hope others take heart from your stand and realise that only by doing so can the iniquitous impositions that they are pushing onto us be shown to be unworkable and hasten their abandonment.

If you feel that there were things said during the last interview that would be worth recording you could ask for a quick recap at the beginning of the next interview.

It could be useful too, for the record, to get her to define and give her view of the following clause in the Claimant Commitment and ask whether or not she agrees with it:

“I understand this Claimant Commitment is my Jobseeker's Agreement for the purpose of section 1(2)(b) of the Jobseekers Act 1995.”

You might also ascertain from the start what her views are and whether or not she intends to honour what the DWP Guidance has to say about UJM and the Workbook or whether she is going to continue with threats and lies to impose on you her version of the law and the regulations. You might add that if she intends to continue as she began at the previous interview then you will have to insist on having your interviews in future with someone who has a passing acquaintance with the law.

I believe this Work Plan Booklet nonsense has been introduced because UJM has turned out not to be as successful or useful as anticipated. The only way that claimants can be made to use UJM is by threats and fear. Someone must have come up with the idea that it could be easier to get claimants to agree to using the Booklet to circumvent privacy issues surrounding the use of the internet and once enticed into using it then the step to accepting UJM more readily might be easier as it could be sold as being less cumbersome and require less time consuming paperwork.

I am confident that you will achieve a favourable outcome on Monday. The way to win the battle is to be prepared, if it has to be bloody let it be the blood of the antagonist. Any points that you feel need further clarification feel free to run them by us.

PS: I am presuming that by ‘Rapid Reclaim’ you mean that you already have a Jobseeker’s Agreement that is still valid and that there is nothing about it that could alter your rights under the law.

If this was me, I'd print out the legislation that says you don't need to use UJM.

Am I the only one who found it rather suspect that you were told you had to use UJM and then the adviser had to go and see the manager and check the legislation? I think they were hoping you wouldn't ask and would do whatever they say. (which many would do, for fear of a sanction)

UJM is not the only tool people use to find jobs, most of the jobs I've had have come via contacts, rather than anything on a particular website.

UJM is just another way of 'ensuring that the jobseeker is doing a 35 hour a week jobsearch'. Basically asking a jobseeker to 'work' for the benefit they are actually legally entitled to. Perhaps the government will (if they get re-elected - which I sincerely hope does not happen) change the word 'benefit' to 'temporary payment for a period of labour inactivity'....

Just hoping hte job interview on monday pays off. My next appointment to finish the CC is wednesday.

She did say they were planning on phasing out the Workplan booklet!! From what I feel has happened is that they had a team meeting in the center and decided to try and push everyone onto UJM in order ot make their life easier.

I suspect whe went to her Line Manager to say I was refusing and ask him/her what to do. She was probably told, "hes right"

There still bullying people into this? It was happening to me over a year ago too or is it worse now? in fact the treatment from them even after holding them to guidance is what pushed me over the edge onto ESA. This whole process change is cruel imo, a lot of people wont know the rules or have the confidence to challenge them. Im pretty convinced now that they know its pretty hard to get someone a job, and are just simplifying and hell encouraging the sanction regime, whats worse is those who are employed to do it know they have to comply or join the flock they wont enjoy it.