I have a Capital One account which has for some time been with Robinson Way,

in November 2008 I sent Robinson Way a CCA request

today I have received this.

It looks very similar to other Capital One agreements I have seen posted

I assume they are claiming that the two pages are front and back of the same document,

however, I have some questions

If the lines on the first document are folds and not evidence of a cut and paste why do the not show on the second page?

The first page shows two barcodes top right and bottom left,

they have completely different code numbers

does this indicate a cut and paste?

If I thought this was sufficient evidence to make a complaint of fraud I would love to do so,

but before I make a fool of myself does anyone have any advice?

Would it be normal for a single document to have two entirely different barcodes?

In the unlikely event that they are front and back of the same document is this enforceable?

Any advice would be much appreciated.

I have just started a new thread on this Falsifying documents I'd love to know if any of these companies have ever been caught out and prosecuted.

Any ideas anyone?

Daniella

I got the same document in the post today,just checked bar codes on mine and they are different,and mine looks like cut and paste ,watching this post with great intrest

When I went to seeWest Lothian Trading Standards they stated that they would investigate cases such as this where the creditor has produced documents that were cut and paste reconstructions and where it was obvious that they were not part (or different) from the original agreement. They would need proof though.

I have seen other threads with FSA correspondance that states that the OC can send a "true copy" that is the same as the document that you signed but omitting the signature box. However if the agreement that they are citing you signed is different (i.e. terms and conditions, interest rate and material facts that are less favourable) then it would be a case of fraud.

My TS said that they would need to see a copy of the original (i.e. that the debtor had retained) and the alleged fraudulent copy that the creditor had produced following a S78(1) request under the CCA 1974.

Hope this is helpful, I would image there will be some differences of opinion on this which somewhat reflects the variability and inconsistency in TS advice around the country.

Thanks for the prompt replies troops

Daniela sorry but the link to your thread don’t work

Monty typical TS response if they were that interested surely they could demand that the creditor produce the original from which the alleged copy was taken.

While I know a creditor may omit signature box from a copy I would think that is very different from cutting and pasting a signature box onto a spurious document.

In any event I am at the stage where I have nothing to loose, so I intend to call there bluff. I will write back saying that I doubt the authenticity of this document and they can either take me to court where I will require them to produce the original or go forth and multiply

Good for you. I'll be watching with interest.

Sorry the link doesn't work - I am hopeless.

If you do a search on the words 'Falsifying Documents' you'll get there.

Very interested in what you have said, Monty.

My main points are on 'Falsifying Documents' - don't want to hijack this thread.

DD

I think what nosnibor is asking though, is how can it be a true copy of the document when there is fold marks (allegedly) on the front page and yet no fold marks on the reverse of that page!

I have been sent the same Crap one agreements , the "back page" does have fold marks on which (upon first inspection) line up with the "front page".

Upon closer inspection of the "back page " though, the copy does not fit into the A4 page, there is a black mark in the top right corner as though the document was out of line when copied. This now makes the "fold"marks out of line. Clearly they are not part of same document.

I have an “alleged” account with Crap One, after there response to my CCA request I wrote to them stating that I believed the documents provided are a cut and paste and that I would not make any payments unless instructed to do so by a court.

Then the telephone calls started. I was fortunate enough to be able to get together the £100 for the True Call device (which is worth every penny and more)

They quickly realised they could not get past that and stopped ringing my land line, however, they are calling my mobile up to 3 times per day (non of which I have answered)

I sent the CAG telephone harassment letter which I have confirmed was delivered on the 7th of April but the calls still continue.

Any advice as to what I should do next would be much appreciated.

Hi,

Not sure if you've read this thread........

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/99376-telephone-harassment-action-plan.html

Might help.

Regards.

Scott.

Something I have done - and it's worked - is if you have caller ID, answer the phone and say "Thank you for calling harrassment line, *made up name* speaking, how can I help".. the calls soon stopped.

Mrs. Nosnibor has a Crap One card, sent a CCA request in December 2008 they replied with latest terms and conditions. Wrote back explaining this was not acceptable and all went quiet.

Then in May we start to receive letters from Fredrickson International (no phone calls as we have True Call ). Sent the bemused letter to Fredricksons 26th May, however, the threats continued.

Today I was just about to escalate with complaints to OFT and TS and thought I would check with the PO that bemused letter had been delivered and was alarmed to find PO could not confirm this.

Is this just poor service from PO or Fredricksons playing silly beggars?

Should I send the bemused letter by recorded delivery again, should I try special delivery or is there another address i.e. not the PO Box I should use.

The only details I can find are below, email or fax them.

Fredrickson International Ltd

PO Box 260

Weybridge

KT13 0YH

Contact: Mr J Lacey

Phone: 0845 219 8686

Fax: 0845 223 5656

Email: [email protected]

Link: freds.com - The Fredrickson Holdings Group of Companies

Service: ABCJLOQ

Area: UK

Region: SE

Type: Full

Can't hurt to send it again recorded.

This is the address I used when I had to send a bemused letter, was signed for and I never heard from them again.

Fredrickson International Ltd

Persimmon House

De Havilland Drive

Brooklands Business Park

Weybridge

Surrey

KT13 0NT

Pookey

Then in May we start to receive letters from Fredrickson International (no phone calls as we have True Call ). Sent the bemused letter to Fredricksons 26th May, however, the threats continued.

Today I was just about to escalate with complaints to OFT and TS and thought I would check with the PO that bemused letter had been delivered and was alarmed to find PO could not confirm this.

I too had a similar situation, where my recorded delivery (RD) letters were sent, but weren't being signed for, or so I thought.

Try their customer services, and tell them your looking for a refund unless they can give you an excuse, and a confirmation that it was delivered.

http://www.royalmail.com/portal/rm/customerservice2?catId=69800733&mediaId=70700722

Boo;)

this works with Frederickson

they have disappeared off the radar now for 4 months

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/legal-issues/173201-why-you-shouldnt-use.html

Many thanks to all for the prompt replies.

I am now going to send a copy of the bemused letter by recorded delivery to the original PO Box, the address kindly provided by Pookey and also by e-mail to the address provided by Cerberus.

If I get any more crap in the post I will then follow advice from LTWFB.

Cheers

Nosnibor

Old Capital One card (sold to Robbers Way)

Defaulted June 2006 (no longer showing on credit reports)

Last token payment 17th November 2008

Would I be correct in thinking that in this case the SB date would be 18th November 2014?

I ask because having not heard anything about this account for over a year, the approach of SB appears to have prompted a renewed bout of willy waving from Robbers Way, presumably an effort to have me acknowledge the debt and restart the clock.

Many thanks

Nosnibor

Hi Nosnibor

That's correct providing, no payment has been made in that period, the debt has not been acknowledged in that period and you have not received a CCJ for that debt.

If the last payment made to the account was 17th November 2008, then the statute barred date would not be for at least 2 months following.

SB clock starts to run from the cause of action.. which would be the first missed payment which would have been December 2008.

A Warning...

Robbers Way will attempt to claim you made a payment against a debt if you use the "Statute Barred" route...

Make sure you are correct on your dates...

Rebel11 and fkofilee thanks for the warning

from reading other threads I am fully expecting claims of mystery benefactors making cash payments on my behalf etc.

but I am certain of my dates and am comfortable I have all my ducks in a row with this one. just seeking confirmation of the dates.

CitizenB not trying to question your expertise in any way but would cause of action not have existed from the default date at the latest?

Many thanks

Nosnibor

old threads merged for history

dx

 

CitizenB not trying to question your expertise in any way but would cause of action not have existed from the default date at the latest?

The default notice allows for a remedy - for example 'If you don't pay up within X then we will do Y'

The CoA cannot therefore occur before the expiry of the period allowed in which to remedy the default and the option to enforce the Y part of the condition comes to pass