hi, thanks for letting me join,

I'm a newbie here wondering about a problem we have just had tonight.

I came home tonight to see my daughter on the phone looking a bit flustered,

she is 23 and doesn't live with us but is visiting today,

she had just had a phone call from a debt collection agency

called sigma red about a debt owed to the cosmetics company Avon.

Some time ago she was approached in the street by an Avon salesewoman

who asked if she wanted to become an Avon rep,

she said she would think about it and gave the woman her mobile number and address.

she never signed anything nor was she offered anything.

she just thought she was saying she was interested.

Nothing happened then, no phone calls, no letters, no cooling off period, no contract.

3 weeks or so later a parcel arrived at her door from avon.

she opened it and it was an Avon rep starter kit.

She hadnt signed for the parcel nor had she been asked to.

she called avon and told them she didn't want it, and hadn't asked for it,

and asked them to arrange to have it collected, which they agreed to.

Avon had her mobile phone number and never to this day called her,

she moved a few days later and left the parcel at the house as avon were supposedly collecting.

that was in july.

tonight she had a phone call from a debt collection agency called sigma red chasing her for a debt of £56.

She was terrified by the woman who wanted immediate payment or else

'legal recovery' actions would follow. she was white faced when she told me.

I got the details and called them back

after verifying who i was and that i had authority to speak for her,

I was told that she had to pay.

I disagreed that there was any contract at all,

she hadn't asked for it and had made an effort to get it back to them,

they hadn't attempted to even call her,

even though they had her number,

because the debt collectors had the number from Avon.

I told them that they hadn't a chance in hell, I considered this debt to be non existent,

it was Avons unsolicited parcel that they hadn't made an effort to collect, and as far as i see it they had no claim.

The woman wasn't particularly helpful i asked for a manager, he gave me the same spiel,

I asked for copies of any documentation or contract that my daughter had signed,

he said they weren't obliged to send me any,

then he said they had no documentation,

and round we went over and over.

My opinion is that this debt doesn't exist.

They sent her stuff she hadn't asked for,

and failed to collect it when asked.

he insists that she still owes them.

I'm gonna ring Avon tomorrow,

but where does she stand over this.

she hasn't signed anything and never asked for it,

and asked them to take it back when they sent it,

surely she has done enough.

the parcel is possibly still at her previous house,

but as it was a student let i doubt it.

Any thoughts on this.

its only 56 quid

I'm so annoyed that they had the nerve to send this stuff that wasn't wanted,

and then drop it straight to the debt collectors without any contact. grrrrrrr!!

debt collectors ARE NOT BAILIFFS

and they have

NO SUCH LEGAL POWERS.

I'd p'haps get her to goto noddle [see below]

and get her credit file

they might have trashed it.

dx

Keep all communication by post or email, that way everything is written down and harder for people to forget what they said.

Start the ball rolling by making a Formal Complaint to AVON

google the UK MD/CEO and address the complaint to that person.

Inform Sigma Red that the alleged account with Avon is fraudulent and no liability is accepted,

demand that SR communicates in writing only by Royal Mail,

no phone calls, e-mails or text messages.

Tis has happened before with Avon " recruiters" I'm told building their paper pyramids.

Use signed for post and check delivery.

These are unsolicited goods and don't have to be returned, also, it is an offence to demand payment for unsolicited goods.

guys, thanks for that.

im going to call avon tonight and speak to their customer service people.

having little experience of this sort of thing i was a bit shell shocked about it.

but thats subsided to anger today,

the behaviour of these people is shocking. and she was terrified,

shes never even been overdrawn at the bank so the threat of debt collectors scared her.

she was even prepared to pay the debt because she thought it was the only way to get them off her back

and she thought she was obliged to pay for the stuff even though she didnt order it.

so, plan of action, first im going to speak to Avon, and i will let you know what they say.

and thanks to the fairys who popped in and sorted by breathless rant into punctuated paragraphs! ha ha ha !

i will keep you updated.

John,

Does she still have the goods in her possession? It would appear not from#post 1.

This may cause a problem as unsolicited good or not the would be a common duty of care to make sure that the items were returned.

I presume that the goods are no longer accessible?

Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013 say you have a right to keep goods delivered to you that you didn’t ask for.

she called avon when they came and told them she hadnt ordered anything and didnt want them.

they said they would arrange for them to be collected and sent back.

they never contacted her again.

they must have her mobile number as they gave it to the debt collectors,

but avon themselves never called her.

she moved from the house after she had spoken to them

and as avon were supposedly collecting from the house she left them there.

however, the other tennant left soon after,

but as she hasnt been contacted by avon she didnt give it a thought.

From what you have said then you have received unsolicited goods.

That being the case there cannot be any debt, liability or onus on you to do anything. Some might say that you should "do the right thing" and invite Avon to come and collect. It seems form your narrative that you have done that and they did not respond.

You have no responsibility at all if you are in receipt of unsolicited goods and you can do with them as you wish (and it appears have done so).

The small problem you have is that you have tried to deal with this on the phone and I would bet that you have not recorded these calls but you may well have made proper notes of these calls. If you have done the latter then this will help you but I would really keep everything in writing from now on.

It is highly unlikely that this "account" has been sold to a DCA and that the DCA are simply acting on behalf of Avon. That being the case you can ignore them and remove them from the equation.

I would be inclined to write to Avon detailing the events that have happened in a clear chronological order. Don't waffle but stick to the actual facts and use bullet points if necessary. Clear and concise narrative is better than rambling.

You should tell them what has happened, where things have gone wrong and what you expect them to do about it. It is most important that you ask at least one question in your letter (you may care to ask more than one) because that puts the onus on them to reply and give an explanation.

Head your letter "Formal Complaint" which then means they have to deal with it through their complaints procedure.

If you wish you can copy the letter to the DCA but whatever you do, don't deal with or entertain the DCA in any fashion.

Yep it seems like a lot of similar happenings with Avon reps.

I have seen lots of newspaper facebook pages having complaints like this

claiming we can pay for christmas with them.

I would stick to writing to them

well,heres a blast from the past! and guess what, this isnt over.

i managed to get sigma red off her back and it went quiet for months.

but it appears that sigma red handed the debt (remember this is 56 quid) back to avon,

and now avon have sold it to a company called lowell,

theyre demanding the same payment.

i replied months ago asking for proof that the debt existed,

nothing came back so i assumed theyd given up,

but no, today, 17/8/16 i got another letter,

demanding the same 56 quid payment that they have bought from avon.

the guy also informed me that avon had trashed her credit record over this unpaid debt,

i repeatedly asked for proof that the debt exists,

and he said that they dont need a signature on a contract for that to be valid,

but he wouldnt confirm that they had any contract.

(i know they havent because she didnt sign one)

he wont send me anything, just insists that i pay up.

i told him that without proof of the legitimacy of this,

he wouldnt get a single penny from me/her.

and there we have it, 2 years plus and rising.

i feel that this will probably still be unresolved when i retire!

well sigma red are lowells anyway

so prob sold a while back now

you shouldn't be speaking to them on the phone

you'll get nowhere other than threats they wont repeat in letter.

time for a stern letter to the CEO avon

did you do that before?

dx

yep, no reply.

i suppose i should have sent it recorded delivery to make sure it gets there.

the funny thing is,

its costing them money.

my mrs always bought stuff from the local avon lady,

not much,

but easily 10 or 15 quid a month.

but since this started i told them all that we shouldnt be giving them more cash,

so its cost them more in lost sales merely from our house than they claim they are owed.

so you sent an email yes?

to whom?

how long ago did the unsolicited parcel turn up. your original post from 2014 says it was some time ago. Can your daughter or u remember when

and the saga continues.

when i spoke to lowells i asked them for a copy of the contract that my daughter had signed,

(i know she never signed anything)

they promised to send me out the details.

a month on i recieve a letter from them with a timeline of events and it makes an interesting read.

they list the date they sent the innitial parcel out,

the one she rang up and told them she didnt want and instructed them to collect.

but it later lists that the goods were returned and credited her account back to zero for returning them,

they obviously collected.

but later still, they posted out another parcel of unsolicited goods

and its this second package, sent after she had moved out, unsolicited that they are seeking payment for.

[removed]. they still arent getting a penny from us,

ive told them im only dealing with them by post now

and am sending a letter to lowell and avon instructing them quite precisely where they can insert their invoice.

who signed for the second parcel?

Clearly they r clutching at straws to expect your daughter to pay for a second unsolicited parcel.