Hi all, i'm desperate for some help!

about 2 years ago I received a letter from HFO services to say that I owed £6k+ from an old Welcome loan. (included interest/fees etc)

They threatened me with baliffs etc unless I set up an agreement.

I made it very clear that the amount they were stating seems very high in comparison to original amounts I borrowed

(which I think were around £1,000-£2,000).

Bear in mind that the loan was from around 2005.

Under duress I set up a plan for £50 per month but told them that I still wanted to see the original agreement.

2-3mths pass (still making payments to them) and

I decide to stop paying as I still hadn't received any documents to support their claim of the above amount.

Needless to say, I received another call to ask why i'd stopped paying...

I explained that I wasn't happy with the amount they were claiming I owed

and was told that they had requested this,

but they didn't need to,

they had all of the original amounts in front of them,

and that if I didn't start making payments again,

they were resume court proceedings etc.

I started paying again.

Again, a few mths passed and I hadn't heard anything so stopped paying again.

Then a Claimform arrives for the full amount of over £6,000

I had no option other than to complete the affordability request and offer of payment (again, £50 per mth).

This was accepted and I have had an attachment of earnings ever since.

This has been on for over 1 year now.

On the claim form, I included a long letter explaining pretty much the above story on requesting documents etc.

There isn't a month goes by without me wondering if I have done the right thing.

Clearly,

I did not attend the CCJ hearing (if there was one),

and now the A.O.E. is in place,

I cannot stop paying as my employer will not remove without the Court requesting them to do so.

My questions to anyone on here would be:

1) How on earth were they allowed to apply for a CCJ and/or A.O.E. without proof of the original loan amount?

2) I have tried Googling for ways to contact HFO Services, yet cannot find anything,

does anyone know if they even still exist.

(If they don't, who am I paying every month?!)

3) Have they broken any rules based on what I have explained?

I had an argument with someone over the phone at HFO that I felt that I was being held ransom

as they rang me and told me I owed them £6k+ but they didn't even have to prove it!

Now I have an A.O.E. I feel totally trapped!

I would really appreciate it if anyone can offer any advice or if anyone has been in a similar position or could advise what I could possibly do???

MANY THANKS!

oh dear done over blind.

you really should have contested that CCJ

and put them to strict proof to produce the paperwork

99% of welcome debt are to put it bluntly - 'fake'.

Thanks for the reply...just what I thought, but only in hindsight!

I plan on trying to get all the info from the court if possible to see what they presented.

I did include a letter with the declaration of earnings etc stressing that HFO had not followed up my request to supply original agreement

or even a breakdown of original loan, interest charges etc.

The biggest thing for me now is whether or not I can actually 'appeal' or contest the CCJ?

I would be sickened to think that they can just apply to a court the way they did

and have me paying £50 a month for the next 11yrs without me being able to do anything at all about it....!

Am I screwed???

I'm not honestly sure

where you stand regarding the letter and its contents

and if that should have been taken on board by the court.

ideally you should have defended all

that might be the reason for the AEO

you admitted the debt.

i'll move you to the legal forum

and poss the knowledgeable ones will comment.

dx

Thanks for the reply...just what I thought, but only in hindsight!

 

I plan on trying to get all the info from the court if possible to see what they presented.

 

I did include a letter with the declaration of earnings etc stressing that HFO had not followed up my request to supply original agreement

or even a breakdown of original loan, interest charges etc.

 

The biggest thing for me now is whether or not I can actually 'appeal' or contest the CCJ?

 

 

I would be sickened to think that they can just apply to a court the way they did

and have me paying £50 a month for the next 11yrs without me being able to do anything at all about it....!

 

Am I screwed???

Hi,

It doesn't look good I'm afraid. You were paying the debt at £50 per month but most importantly you admitted the claim when you filled in the Court form and sent it back offering £50 again.

There was no hearing and no documents were required as you admitted the debt. Therefore the CCJ was automatic.

What was the date of the CCJ again please?

You could try and have the CCJ and AOE set aside but it could turn out very costly if you lose.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?434883-HFO-chasing-old-welcome-car-CCJ-almost-paid-off-they-say-no-its-not&p=4633836#post4633836

interesting reading

dx

Oh dear. This is a mess. Who have you been talking to at HFO Capital, and on what numbers?

Hello?

Sincere apologies for the delayed response, I didn't realise that anyone had replied: it is however GREATLY appreciated.

SO, to confirm:

*I am positive that I did not admit to the amount they were claiming

and that I am positive I included a 2 page letter detailing my requests for original paperwork etc.

*I think that I sent the N9A form back to HFO/Turnbull Rutherford at their request/advice but not 100% sure.

*I haven't spoken with anyone at HFO since probably late 2012, just prior to them starting the CCJ process.

The last conversation I had with them was because they rang to ask why I has stopped paying,

to which I explained that I started paying the £50 per month on their promise that they would provide all original agreements etc.

*Probably not the right thing to do, but I DO admit the debt with Welcome Finance:

I did have a loan with them from 2005 which I did not clear..

.HOWEVER I honestly could not tell you for how much and/or how much was outstanding.

*I wish I had never started making payments at all,

but it is very easy to be pressured into it when threatened with legal action for £11k+...

When they offered to drop to £6k+ with the promise that the original agreements and documents are on their way,

I figured it was probably better to start paying until I disputed the amount.

If I had ANY idea that by doing so, I would hold myself liable for ANY amount they pull out of a hat in front of a court,

I would never have done it.

Realistically however, I do still believe that they would have gone down the CCJ route and obtained the CCJ anyway.

*The CCJ was awarded in Feb 2013 and they have applied an AOE for £80 per month to my salary.

I am told that this is paid monthly directly via Northampton AOE payment centre(?) to HFO Capital.

The payment centre provided me the details they hold for HFO,

and it would appear they are no longer at that address and the number they have for them is also not in service.

*I have spoken to the court and they were not provided with ANY documents by HFO or Turnbull Rutherford

and that they application was "made online"...(?)

*As a last resort, I appreciate that I may need to attempt a set-aside order,

which I know carries a fee, but I feel so trapped and helpless.

I honestly have ZERO idea if I have a leg to stand on purely on the basis that I want to see original documents

and/or I may have completed them form incorrectly/sent to wrong place after technically 'admitting' to the debt.

I have been shown articles for HFO being sold etc and any debts are now 'void' or written off,

however clearly as I have an AOE in place, its not like I can stop paying...!

I honestly believe that HFO bought the debt, chanced their arm and got a win out of me.

I have read countless examples of this happening to people with the same company

(some even suggest that HFO PURPOSELY withhold sending the N9A form to the court?

Not sure if that is correct as I don't recall 100% where I sent my form,

but given that the court have confirmed they have NO paperwork relating to the case I am assuming I never sent it to the court.)

I realise the situation I have gotten myself into, and I do massively appreciate your replies

and any further guidance or assistance you can provide as this is really my only method of battling this.

Clearly, I cannot afford a solicitor, which might be pointless anyway,

but I PRAY that there MUST be a way out of this for me..

.somehow...

I wonder if you could set aside the ccj?

dx

I think you have shot yourself in the foot by accepting the CCJ.

I also think you should now bite back.

The CCJ is final, don't worry about contesting it, go for the charges on it.

Send Welcome a SAR, find out what charges were put on the account and start your own court case to reclaim them.

You should have sent the documents to the court as well as Turnbull, they have 'misused their powers' here - possibly do a full complaint to the regulators about their activities.

As you completed the N9 (admittance form) then its correct to return it to the claimant...not the court...as the title of the form states its an admittance and therefore an automatic judgment.

Regards

Andy

Thanks for the numerous replies...

I received a copy of the documents the court held on the case today,

and it is just a document telling me that I did not reply to the claim form

automatic judgement was made so to please pay HFO directly...Hence the AOE.

Its probably quite clear that HFO sent me the N9A form,

to which I did not admit or agree to the debt,

and included all my reasons for this.

Clearly, they didn't like reading this I assume and told the court I had not replied.

Debt collector or not,

if it was obvious that I was not admitting to the debt,

they surely have a responsibility to direct me to a N9B form (?)

or even notify the court of this, or

I guess even still submit the N9A and my letter.

This further fuels my suspicions that HFO have ZERO proof of original agreements between me and Welcome,

and by not submitting my form, they know that the judgement will automatically go to them...?

I guess this is speculation, but I have nothing else at this point.

However, this still doesn't help my situation, so could do with some solid advice if possible...

* Does anyone have any working contact numbers for HFO/Turnbull Rutherford?

I have Googled them to death but no success.

I also assume that they would tell me that the court decided anyway,

but just wanted to speak to them first and let them know I am trying to pursue this further (may be a bad idea upon reflection)

Has anyone managed to find out if any HFO debt is now 'un-enforcable' or wiped off?

That would be nice, but I think unlikely...!

If I have no way of contacting HFO to confirm if they ARE still trading, or even who their administrators are, where do I stand?

Surely I shouldn't be actually paying out money every month if they don't exist?

Will the Financial Ombudsman be the correct people to call and ask about HFO/Turnbull Rutherford still being 'alive',

and maybe if I explain my story to them, they could offer advice...?!

I would really welcome your continued support and advice guys,

I really feel like I MAY be making tiny steps to recovery! lol

Thanks,

Shaun

They are here.

http://www.hfocapital.org/

But don’t call them yet.

Which company has the CCJ? HFO Capital or HFO Services?

Thanks DonkeyB,

HFO Capital Limited are the Claimant on the court Judgment.

Turnbull Rutherford Solicitors (Building 3, Chiswick Park) are the address for payment.

Interestingly I found a letter dated 2011 from HFO Services (PO BOX 342) so I guess they've changed names...?

Guess we're dealing with some awful people here right...?

Shaun

No, no name changes as such, just other types of chicanery.

Do you have any earlier correspondence? A notice of assignment, for example? When did they claim they bought the account?

Was two years ago the first time you ever heard from them? The account dated from 2005, but when did you stop paying? Everything is useful to know.

I’m just trying to establish if the correct claimant was listed... check all your old docs. More than one way to skin a cat.

(My cat has just done a runner...)

Would be useful to see that HFO Services letter.

What was the date of the claim?

I'd be happy to scan the document and sent you it...? or a photo on my phone, sent to you?

I started getting phone calls and letters in around 2011 I believe (original loan was taken out in 2005 just before our daughter was born and was for, I think £1,500ish).

At first I told them I wanted proof...Documents, agreements etc etc. and just kept ignoring them.

Then, I agreed to start paying (if i'm honest, just to appease them: I never actually made a payment).

They came back a few weeks later and asked why I wasn't paying (including phone calls to work despite telling them not to!), and I was still requesting more info than "we bought the debt and you own £11,013!)

Then, they reduced the amount to £6k something, which at the time, to me, sounded great! So I told them i'd start paying BUT still wanted documents...) "No problem sir, we'll get them to you ASAP"...

It was at this point I stupidly started paying them. I made a payment of £50 and two payments of £60 but after again requesting docs, and nothing arriving, I stopped paying.

This was in around Dec 2012 as in Jan 2013 I received the court letter from them explaining that they were taking me to court for the £6351 outstanding. This included a statement of means(?) form, for me to fill in my ins and outs, and an N9A form.

I completed all the forms, aside from the section which I recall vividly asked for me to either admit to the full amount or admit to a different amount. I strongly believe I ticked neither and added a note to "see attached letter", which I included in my return. This letter basically explained the full story and made it very clear that I admitted to having a previous loan with Welcome, however was strongly contesting the amounts HFO were declaring and wanted to confirm the amount borrowed and how they arrived at the amount they were claiming.

Unfortunately, I do not have a copy of any original court documents or the letter I sent (laptop on which a copy was saved has since died...annoyingly).

Other than a letter dated Feb 2011 from HFO services, confirming my initial payment agreement and a copy of the 'judgment for claimant' form the court sent me today (which is strange as I never received an original letter from them, just an AOE letter I believe), I don't have anything.

I plan on checking through some of my email accounts however as I am sure I engaged in some conversations via email.

I am not sure of the date of the claim, but the judgment was dated 04 Feb 2013.

Their letter dated 2011 stated that the account was with Welcome Financial Services.

Thanks again. Please let me know if you'd like to see copies and i'd gladly share. (Please let me know how to email them or message them to you!)

Shaun

did you ever send welcome that sar?

dx

Hi Dx,

I haven't sent it yet, but plan to. I was under the impression that Welcome finance went into administration some time ago (?) Perhaps I am wrong!

I will try and find an address for them. I have an account number with them so guess that's a start.

I assume this is to request any docs they have that I signed up to. This could be crucial as will prove/disprove whether HFO have the correct info (if they have anything at all!)

Thanks,

Shaun

in the welcome finance forum - top stickies

get it sorted might blow the whole thing out the water.

dx

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I think I have attached it correctly.

Sorry for the quality!

I've removed the image for now as I did it wrong, will try again but sure you saw it anyway...

(ps please don't rob me!)

you need to redact it via a jpg then convert to pdf

the blocks can be removed.

dx