Hi all Caggers,

There may be someone who has had experience in this field reading this thread.

My enforced water supplier Welsh Water, make the claim that they have " never had one of their Waters Meters found to be over metering".

Not having knowledge of the construction or functioning of such meters, this may be a true statement.

I find this hard to believe, but would be grateful to hear of others experiences!.

Carningli

Can you give a bit more background please. What do you mean by overmetering? I assume you believe you're being overcharged.

Hi Caro,

Many thanks for your response. To answer your question the term "over metering" is used to indicate that the meter is registering more consumption than is actually used.

To cut a long story short, I own the property concerned and lived in it for some 10 years with my wife. Over that period I always considered the water bills to be high. Some three years ago we moved to our second home permanently and the property since has been occupied solely by a member of the family in her seventies. my wife and I consume the same amount of water as previously but our bills are 25% lower than those of a single person residing in the property. I have had plumbers in to see if there are any internal leaks, the meter does not record when the property is left empty for any period. Everything appears to focus on the meter as the only untested piece of the puzzle. Welsh Water will test the meter for £70, but if I have it tested I want an independent body, I do not trust Welsh Water to be unbiased. I am in contact with the Welsh Water Council, but they are slow to move. I would like to know if anyone else has experienced this kind of problem

Carningli.

I thought it was probably something like that. Is your current home covered by the same water board? I assume you are looking at volume of water rather than cost.

Yes both properties are within the same water board area and basically the comparison is like with like, I am fortunate in knowing what the consumption figures should be and they are agreed by the Welsh Water Council, frankly they just do not add up. Volume is what I am trying to establish, but of course cost is involved too.

As you own and have access to the property concerned, can you not test it yourself by measuring out a set amount and seeing what the meter says you have used ?

It's not hard to check if a meter is still running while no water is being used, ie, you have a leak.

There is a small wheel in the center, turn off all water in the house and watch that wheel to see if it's moving.

If the leak is inside of your boundary, the repairs are up to you.

If the meter does not record any usage when the property was empty then I would suggest the meter is working correctly.

If there was a leak from the meter itself this would be constant and consumption would have been recorded during the unoccupied period you refer to.

The meters are calibrated before installation and the charge you mention to have it re-tested should you wish is standard.

The tap test suggested in the previous post is your best and cheapest option in this case as a leak on the meter would likely result in a huge jump in consumption and not the 25% you mention.

Many thanks to all who have kindly responded. A tap test would require measuring very accurately water drawn off in the house, I would imagine that the meter records cubic metres passing through the meter. Surely to do this one would require a calibrated receptacle capable of holding such a large amount of water, is this practicable? Water leaking at the meter would under record not over.

Carningli

Many thanks to all who have kindly responded. A tap test would require measuring very accurately water drawn off in the house, I would imagine that the meter records cubic metres passing through the meter. Surely to do this one would require a calibrated receptacle capable of holding such a large amount of water, is this practicable? Water leaking at the meter would under record not over.

 

 

Carningli

I believe that if you have grave doubts about the meter and the WC refuses to test that Trading Standards can be involved, this " belief" come from a property we had with exactly the same problem.

However things may have changed with the various changes of regulatory bodies/

Many thanks to all who have kindly responded. A tap test would require measuring very accurately water drawn off in the house, I would imagine that the meter records cubic metres passing through the meter. Surely to do this one would require a calibrated receptacle capable of holding such a large amount of water, is this practicable? Water leaking at the meter would under record not over.

 

 

Carningli

Surely it is not "a large calibrated receptacle" but seperately

a) a large volume receptacle and

b) a calibrated means of measuring the volume of the contents of that receptacle.

Draw volume of water into large receptacle, noting meter's stated volume delivered

Measure actual volume delivered using an accurate, calibrated method.

Compare the two figures.

Many thanks to all who have kindly responded. A tap test would require measuring very accurately water drawn off in the house, I would imagine that the meter records cubic metres passing through the meter. Surely to do this one would require a calibrated receptacle capable of holding such a large amount of water, is this practicable? Water leaking at the meter would under record not over.

 

 

Carningli

Could there be a leak after the meter, i.e. between the meter and the property?

Could there be a leak after the meter, i.e. between the meter and the property?

Which would show as "meter shows usage" when the property is empty, and the OP has stated that

Property empty = no usage recorded.

A tap test does not require any water to be drawn or measured.

Simply turn off all water using items within the property and check whether the silver "wheel" (usually in the centre of the meter) is moving then turn on tap and re-check.

If the wheel is still when water is off and then moves when you turn the tap back on then the meter is fine.

As stated if no usage was recorded when property empty then this would suggest meter is ok.

The OP isn't worried about a leak or the meter turning whilst the property is empty. They are worried that the meter is 'over metering', e.g: registering 11m3 when they have only used 10m3.The only way to check is to draw a measured amount of water and check what the meter has registered.

Since a m3 of water is 1000 litres even attempting to measure a small amount would require a lot of empty bottles and if the meter is the same as ours the reading only goes to one decimal place so that is 100 litres.

I cannot see how, other than paying the charge to have it tested, this suggestion would be conclusive as how does the OP evidence the results to the water company?

Nothing to lose by paying this charge if the OP is convinced the meter is faulty as it will be waived if the calibration test shows this (these are independently carried out by the meter manufacturer)

May be worth an email to the Consumer Council for Water (CCW) as the water company may choose to exchange it if they become involved though.

Yes, 1m3 is a lot of water.

If the meter reads to 1/100ths of a m3 (10litres), then to check for a 10% over read he would still have to draw 100litres, to see if the meter reads an increase of 0.11 instead of .10. To check for a larger % over read, smaller amounts could be used.

If the meter only reads to 1/10ths, it would be impractical to test it in this manner.

Hi I have had experience of this how old is your meter? you can ask for a new meter to be fitted at no cost to yourself

Hi all,

Thanks for your interest and suggestions. As I previously intimated, I have always felt it would be impracticable to accurately by means of draw off to measure a large quantity of water eg: 100 ltrs or so. The meter is about 11 years old and does not have a rotating spiral indicator, to show when water is flowing through it.

I would be particularly interested to hear how Suzie Surf Girl resolved her similar problem. If I can prove, which I am unable to do at the present time, that the meter is over recording, I would expect it to be replaced free of charge.

Carningli

Make an official complaint to your supplier and they will test it.

You can check the flow by taking a reading of all numbers especially the red ones at night and then again in the morning, or before you go to work and then when you get home.

Have read this over again a couple of times to clarify are you saying you at your new property are using 25% less water than the relative now living in what was your old property?

If this is the case the simplest explanation could be they are just using more water than you maybe?

Hi - I had a similar problem -all meters should be replaced every 10years or so - once I had a new meter replaced my consumption went to what it should be -the average for 2 persons can be between 75 - 110cubic meters on average. I had the water company out twice they carried out a leak and flow test internal and external free of charge that showed nothing but when I had a new meter fitted my consumption went to what it should be this is free of charge and you should never have to pay for a new meter. this took a few calls to my water company and finally I insisted on speaking to a manager who organised this for me as I threatened to go to cc4 water. I am sure you have done this but have you turned off the external stop tap and checked with your neighbours that this has only turned your water off. I hope this helps.

I have for the past 7 years or thereabouts been doing exactly as suggested keeping a record of weekly usage shown and periods when absent from the property. When absent no consumption is registered on the meter. I have asked for the Water Company's advice and their attitude is very much to claim that the meter is reading accurately and that I have a leak on my side of the meter! The best is a toilet cistern, which is not flowing out of the overflow system but is due to it's symphonic action losing an amount of water during filling of the cistern after flushing. When I asked them for an estimate of water lost they say they are unable to do that. They then rambled on about replacing the inlet valve to the cistern, but this cuts off completely when the cistern is full. There was a new dual flush unit and inlet valve fitted 4 years ago.

However they do agree that the meter is 10 years old and meters are generally replaced around this age and it is possible they could fit a new meter. I have told them that if they take the meter out, I would like them to retain it for independent testing. I am contacting Trading Standards about this situation, not least because of the Water Company's claim, outlined in my first posting.

Best regards to all. Carningli

Regards to all Carningli.

I think we have probably exhausted this thread. Still not received a bill since last year at this property we are now in August the bill for water at the comparison property this year water only was £42 and I live in it.

Would moderator please close this thread.

Carningli