A relative of mine has fallen for this trick - i.e. a website giving the impression that a free trial of a face cream is available, only need to pay £3.95 postage. Hidden in Ts&Cs is that the full price of £97 will be taken from the card if trial not cancelled in 14 days.

He received a phone call from the bank asking him if he knew of the £97 payment, he said no (which he didn't) and the bank cancelled the card and implied that the transaction wouldn't go through.

Unfortunately, despite this, the money was debited anyway leaving him overdrawn on an account that has no o/d facility so he has now incurred bank charges of £6 per day.

The bank said they would send a form to dispute the payment but have since called him back to say that there will be no form as in their view, he accepted the ts&cs and it is his fault and they attach no blame to the company (Stemacell).

I read up on here and he has already sent back the items, unopened and not tampered with, within the 30 day limit.

They have now e-mailed to say they will not refund as the items were not returned in original condition. This is a lie as they certainly were and we took photos to show this.

I am planning joining a call to his bank again now that it is even more clear that this is a [problem] to request a charge back.

If anyone has any further pointers, please let me know.

What I would really like to know is, if the bank will not budge, can I issue a court claim against the company (a legal entity in the Czech Republic)??

I found this but how practical is it? https://e-justice.europa.eu/content_small_claims-42-en.do

Hi Mr. Hat

Quite a few threads with relevant advice.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/search.php?searchid=4925424

What's the name of the back?

COBS might be of use here in relation to the information provided by the bank:-

'He received a phone call from the bank asking him if he knew of the £97 payment, he said no (which he didn't) and the bank cancelled the card and implied that the transaction wouldn't go through.'

Ho rebel,

Have been reading the other threads.

Think we have reached a conclusion but need to wait a few days. Stemologica have e-mailed to say a refund has been made and it should take 2-3 days.

Only concern is that the refund will go onto old card (the one that was stopped due to this situation) and Santander have told my relative that it won't therefore go through and he needs to pass his new card details to the company (yes, the same one that has diddled him!!!). However, I think this may be incorrect information as in my experience, refunds can be reconciled with the bank account, but I may be wrong.

So we are not 100% there but hopefully the money will arrive soon.

if we get the money, I will post how we went about it on here. I have picked up some interesting tactics that may not have been picked up by others with this problem (for example, the order date is deliberately backdated on the e-mail confirmation possibly so that people miss the trial and refund deadlines).

Will report back soon

The money is now back in the account so please mark thread as 'refunded'.

Notes (my comments in brackets):

-On September 2nd, the person in question filled out an M&S Survey which he was encouraged to do by a staff member. Link was on back of receipt (yourmandsviews.com). Upon completing the survey, a ad either displayed or popped up with the face cream offer. This is what was reported to me. (Not sure how this happened - google ads maybe???)

-He was directed to http://www.stemacell.com (or part of the website or an affiliate page - not sure which) and completed his details. he reports to me that there was a line through the £97.95 price and £0 quoted instead. He only need pay for the postage £3.95. He did not notice the terms and conditions.

-Upon completing, it offered him a second product (Beautemer) for an additional £3.95 (This is all the same company in Czech Republic - Faseder Ltd)

-Soon afterwards(still 2nd Sept), he received two confirmation e-mails but the sent date of each was 1st September late evening (this suggests to me that they have set their server time wrongly)

-(In only noticed this late on in the process but on the order confirmations, 30 Aug and 31 Aug were quoted as the 'order dates' for each product - this is, in my opinion, a tactic to shorten the trial period and catch people out)

-Two £3.95 payments showed on his statement

-Approx two weeks later, he received a call from the bank asking about unusual payments. He didn't recognise that he had authorised £97.95 so the bank cancelled the card. The payment went through anyway leaving him withdrawn - with no o/d facility in place

-This is when I was told about this situation and got involved

-I found the site and read the terms. (I must say that if the terms were displayed as they are on 'stemacell.com' that I would have read them - but then I am very internet savvy and naturally suspicious of 'amazing offers'. In my opinion, form a pure business point of view, this seems legal but probably not on a 'consumer guideline' level. If you are not using a well known and trusted company - be very wary about sharing details that enable people to raid your bank account!!!)

-The terms allowed continuous payment authority for the £97.95 after 14 days and then for monthly replenishments. (For those that don't check their accounts regularly and don't wonder why more cream keeps arriving, this could very quickly end up being thousands. I think the people behind this are making serious money and have been doing for years unchallenged)

-If the product is not used or tampered with, a full refund is available within 30 days if returned at customer's expense

-He returned the parcel by recorded delivery on about the 22 day mark and it was signed for a day later. He took photos to show the packages intact with original security seals in place

-Then began a chain of bullsh1t e-mails making untrue claims as follows (separate post):

Start from bottom and work way up

From: Stemologica

Sent: Monday, September 29, 2014 7:14 PM

To:

Subject: Re: Re: Fw: Offer

Dear xxxx,

We have now refunded GBP 97.95 in full.

Please allow up to 2-3 business days for the money to clear on your statement.

Your account with us is now cancelled.

Regards,

Adina

Customer Satisfaction Specialist

Stemologica,

http://www.stemacell.com

----- Original Message -----

Dear Representative,

I am an authorised representative of Xxxx.

Further to my previous correspondence of 28th September and in response to

your e-mail today, I am writing to confirm that the items were returned

within the 30 day period and in the original condition (unopened and

packaging intact). Your claims to the contrary are untrue and we are

confident that we have sufficient evidence to satisfy a Judge and obtain a

Judgement in our favour if this becomes necessary.

Your product was returned to the correct address, in its original condition

and was signed for on or before 24th September (recorded delivery).

Please reply by return with confirmation that a FULL refund is being

processed. Once this confirmation is received and a FULL refund cleared

into Xxxx's account by Friday 3rd October, we will consider the matter

closed.

A FULL refund is due immediately and is the only measure that Xxxx will

accept to prevent further proceedings from being initiated. For the

avoidance of any doubt, Xxxx rejects your offer of a PARTIAL refund.

Regarding your claim that you only have limited refund transactions

available, this is either a ridiculous urgency technique to panic/induce

customers into accepting a partial refund OR you are indicating that your

company is illiquid and can no longer meet its obligations. Please state

which of these two scenarios is true so that I can make the necessary

preparations for proceeding with this case.

Regards, Mr Hat

On Mon, Sep 29, 2014 at 3:07 PM, wrote:

>

>

> *From:* Stemologica

> *Sent:* Monday, September 29, 2014 1:52 PM

> *To:*

> *Subject:* Offer

>

> Dear Xxxx,

>

>

> When did you return the goods?

>

> Your trial expired on 17/09/2014.

>

> Unless you can provide us with proof of postage documenting you'd returned

> the goods before your trial expired, we will not be able to help you any

> further.

>

> When our return department receive a product they send us an official

> report regarding the product's condition. Customers get a 14 day trial

> period to try the product as much as they like. If for some reason they

> find it unsuitable, they can return the kit (used, unused, or even empty

> jars) to us within the 14-day trial period and not get charged for it.

>

> However, upon receiving a trial kit, if a customer decides not to go ahead

> with the trial, and they leave the kit UNOPENED IN CONDITION THAT ALLOWS TO

> BE SOLD AGAIN, then they can return the kit to us within 30 days FROM THE

> ORDER DATE. If they make this return after the 14-day trail period and have

> been charged, then they will receive a full refund.

>

> In your case you have at least OPENED the creams and gone beyond the 14

> day trial period so you are not eligible for a refund.

>

> However, we are still happy to make a huge compromise and to offer you at

> least a partial refund. The best I can do for you is to credit your account

> GBP 30.00 IN TOTAL. Accepting our offer will be considered as a

> confirmation that you are satisfied to have resolved this case without

> involving other parties, such as a legal dept.

>

> If you are happy to accept my offer please let me know as soon as possible

> as I will have to reserve this amount for you as we have limited refund

> transactions allowed to proceed.

>

> Please let us know if you have any further questions?

>

>

> Kind regards,

>

> Zara

> Customer Satisfaction Specialist

> Stemologica,

> http://www.stemacell.com

Mr Hat

Sep 28 (2 days ago)

to support,

Dear Adina/Representative,

I am an authorised representative of Xxxx.

The information in your email is incorrect.

The products were indeed returned in original condition.

I formally request a full refund to Xxxx immediately and a confirmation that you agree to this by return.

Failure to reply to this request and process a full refund will result in further action such as court proceedings being initiated.

This matter will be pursued vigorously and I strongly recommend that you resolve this matter immediately and amicably.

I look forward to your swift reply.

Regards, Mr Hat .

On 28 Sep 2014 15:14, wrote:

From: Stemologica

Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 2:53 PM

To:

Subject: Stemologica

Dear Xxxx,

This is just a quick note to acknowledge that we have received your returned product.

According to our return policy you can send back products ONLY IF THEY ARE IN ITS ORIGINAL CONDITION.

Our return department confirmed with official report that your product is not in its original condition. You are not eligible for full refund now.

Regards,

Adina

Customer Satisfaction Specialist

Stemologica,

http://www.stemacell.com

So all sorted. Would have pursued Santander also but decided to try this route first. Santander were very unhelpful the whole way through by the way

Well Done Mr Hat

Thanks.

Hopefully others will find the above info useful. As this one was caught early it was relatively straightforward. For those that don't act until after 30 days, I'd imagine it gets more tricky.

They are quite sophisticated in their scheme and understand seo hence all the good reviews when googling. Think they regenerate the product names and sites once business slows down.

Btw, i would have followed through with a money claim if they hadn't backed down

I wouldn't speak on the phone. In writing (by email is fine) only.

You can send something similar but the wording is important. Also straight to the point and with no emotion (even if you are ****ed off).

Ultimately, if they don't play ball, the bank should refund you. What type of card did you use?

this thread is now closed

if you have an issue with sperm

start a new thread

of your own

dx