Hi Everyone

New as an actual member, but a regular viewer of the forums for advice over the past 6 months with regards to debt.

Please can you help with a couple of questions:

1. Is a bailiff company (grrrr Rossendales) allowed to charge enforcement fees at the new rate (£235.00) on a liability order that is pre April 2014?

2. (Liability orders pre April 2014) If a bailiff makes one visit to your house, does not speak to the tenant and then shoves 3 liability orders through the door - Can they charge x3 1st Visit costs?

3. If a bailiff was made aware that the householder was a lone parent and suffering from depression and anxiety and on medication, should the bailiff have informed them that they are a 'vulnerable person' ?

4. How long is a Liability Order valid from the date of issue?

5. If the liability order is in the name of co-habitants - Miss and Mr - and the Mr is now not living in the house (in prison) is the remaining householder responsible for the whole debt of the liability order, even though it is in two names?

Sorry for the long list of questions, but just trying to get these points straight in my head - am helping out a relative who is being hounded by these dogs.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

Have just realised that the on the title of this thread - should really have been a

I'll get used to this!!!!!

Its a joint debt so the EA will pursue the remaining debtor.

Contact the EA's office and inform them of the vulnerabilities of the household they may take a different view and MAYBE return the order to the Council so they can arrange a lower repayment plan. Also inform the Council too.

Is the householder in receipt of any benefits?

It would also pay you to check to see if there are any other accounts in default for previous years and make arrangements to get them up to date before further LO's are issued

In question 3 you state 3x charges can you please confirm if this is for 1 LO or 3

 

1. Is a bailiff company (grrrr Rossendales) allowed to charge enforcement fees at the new rate (£235.00) on a liability order that is pre April 2014?

 

2. (Liability orders pre April 2014) If a bailiff makes one visit to your house, does not speak to the tenant and then shoves 3 liability orders through the door - Can they charge x3 1st Visit costs?

 

3. If a bailiff was made aware that the householder was a lone parent and suffering from depression and anxiety and on medication, should the bailiff have informed them that they are a 'vulnerable person' ?

 

4. How long is a Liability Order valid from the date of issue?

 

5. If the liability order is in the name of co-habitants - Miss and Mr - and the Mr is now not living in the house (in prison) is the remaining householder responsible for the whole debt of the liability order, even though it is in two names?

 

QUOTE]

 

One:

 

Even though the Liability Order was from BEFORE 6th April the bailiff can indeed charge the new 'enforcement fee' of £235 but may ONLY do so in specific circumstances. This is provided for in the Tribunals, Courts and Enforcement Act (Consequential, Transitional, and Saving Provision) Order 2014. With regards to the 'specific circumstances' the fee may only be charged is the bailiff has not PREVIOUSLY (before 6th April) levied upon your goods.

 

Therefore, as long as a 'levy' had not been made before 6th April the £235 is a valid fee BUT this fee may only be charged ONCE even though the bailiff is enforcing three Liability Orders. In other words, the bailiff is not permitted to charge 'multiple fees'.

 

Two:

 

Under the new regulations the bailiff is permitted to charge a 'Compliance Fee' of £75 to each debt but can only charge ONE enforcement fee of £235. Can you please post back to let us know what fees the bailiff has charged against EACH Liability Order.

 

Three:

 

If evidence has been provided to support 'vulnerability' then YES, the bailiff should refer the debts back to the office. Can you post back to let us know what information was evidence was provided and whether this was given to the bailiff or the enforcement company?

 

Four:

 

The Liability Order does NOT have a cut off date. A Liability Order is not covered by the Statute of Limitations Act.

 

Five:

 

Council tax is a joint debt and the bailiff company can pursue any one of the joint parties.

 

Given that the partner is in prison the local authority should be advised as this could affect the amount of council tax due given that Mrs xxx should be considered as a 'single person'. I think that I am right on this but not all together sure.

 

PS: If the debtor is 'vulnerable' then the accounts need to be brought to the attention of Rossendales Welfare Team asap.

Thanks for the prompt replies guys:

Receives Housing Ben, Child Tax Credits and Working Tax Credits - but only works part-time.

Is for 3 LO (from prior to April 2014) charged for 3 x 1st Visit and 3 x 2nd Visit on same date.

Plus they have added Enforcement of £235.00 total (shared between the 3 LOs) on 24th April 2014.

Had made 2 x £10 payments to Bailiffs in Oct13 and Dec13. (These payments are showing as coming off the bailiff fees.)

She felt that they had to just agree to anything with the bailiff on the doorstep to try and get rid of them.

Tomtubby:

There has been no levy made on goods, just made a payment plan in about Oct13, but has made two payments (shown above). But because of Mental Health issues has not kept up the payments.

Where can I read up on the special circumstances?

Thanks

You could get in to trouble for failing to notify the Council of a change of "circumstances promptly" you MUST do this via a change of circumstances via the online services at the local Council's website, then they will make adjustments in the entitlement level and maybe recall the debt.

Either way you MUST let the EA and Council know immediately about the possible vulnerable status ok

The way the new fees structure works is you pay the EA and this is paid pro rata between them and the Council.

If neither know they cannot help you out can they.

Rather than risk the possibility of a criminal record for failing to notify please do so asap.

How long has the partner been in custody?

The fees so far that have been added are correct and will be taken first then once that is done the debt itself will be paid.

So please inform them of the change of circumstances and tell the Council that the claimant may be a vulnerable person give as much detail as you can and copy in the EA's office as well. Then ask the Council to take the debt back in house and arrange a payment plan with then and stick to it and DO NOT MISS any payment now that a payment plan is in place as this will add further fees to the debt

Hi thanks.

Yes council were informed straight away about the change of circumstances. Partner has been in prison for a year, but council where informed straight away.

The vulnerability has increased since then, has had to have time off work, Occupational therapy and fased return to work.

She has spoken to the council to try and set up a payment plan and they just keep pinging it back to the bailiffs.

When she last spoke to the bailiffs, they said they were going to return the cases to the council. She also asked for breakdown of charges. Since then they have sent demand for full payment with the breakdown and then a Notice of REquired Financial Information - but nothing to confirm it is being returned to the council.

I have draft up a letter for her to send, should I get her to send it to the council with cc to the bailiffs.

Have drafted below, do you consider this too strong handed to send: it was originally drafted to send to the bailiffs.

Further to the recent conversation with your representative, I am writing to confirm that Mr XXXXX has not been a resident at XXXXXaddressXXXX since September 2013 and is currently in XXXXXXXXXXX prison. I can confirm that XXXXXXXXXXXXXX District Council were informed immediately about this change of circumstance.

Also after being informed that the above debts will be returned to the creditor, I am also writing to confirm that under paragraph 77 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014, I am classed as a vulnerable person, for the following reasons:

• I am a lone-parent to a child aged 4 years

• I suffer from mental health issues, depression and anxiety.

• I am currently under the care and medication of/from my local GP.

Regulation 10(1) of the taking control of Goods Regulations 2013 provides me with statutory protection as a vulnerable household.

As you have now been notified that I am a vulnerable debtor you should alert the creditor, as paragraph 30 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 and Paragraph 16 says the creditor/council should be prepared to take control of the case at any time, if necessary.

According to Paragraph 7 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 they are responsible for any enforcement agents acting on their behalf.

I would like to request that you do not visit my property as this would cause undue stress and anxiety. Paragraphs 70 to 78 of the Taking Control of Goods: National Standards 2014 says enforcement agents must withdraw from the property. Any further enforcement action will be classed as harassment.

Please do not pass me to your welfare department as you have been informed I am a vulnerable household and should return the debt.

I would be grateful if you could confirm safe receipt of this letter and confirmation that this case has been returned to the council.

cc XXXXXXX District Council

PT

Before sending the letter can you please obtain the following:

How much is each Liability Order and what period do they relate to?

Since her husband was sentenced to prison has Mrs xx been awarded 'single person discount?

You say the Mrs xx gets housing benefit. Does she also receive council tax benefit as well and if so, how long has she been receiving THIS benefit?

Does the council tax benefit cover the full council tax debt or a proportion?

With regards to Mrs x's mental state, has EVIDENCE been provided to the LA or bailiff company?

Hi thanks again for taking the time to reply. I really appreciate your help in trying to sort this out.

How much is each Liability Order and what period do they relate to?

There are 3

Two are for Mr and Miss:

(2012-13) £710.08 includes £179.17 Bailiffs Costs

(2013-14) £313.27 includes £97.11 Bailiff Costs

One for Miss:

(2013-14) £249.24 includes £87.02 Bailiffs Costs

Since her husband was sentenced to prison has Mrs xx been awarded 'single person discount?

I will double check, she is trying to payment agreement with Council on the 2014-15 C Tax bill.

You say the Mrs xx gets housing benefit. Does she also receive council tax benefit as well and if so, how long has she been receiving THIS benefit?

Receives no Council Tax Benefit as she is just over the threshold with wages, child tax credits and working tax credits.

Does the council tax benefit cover the full council tax debt or a proportion?

No

With regards to Mrs x's mental state, has EVIDENCE been provided to the LA or bailiff company?

If you mean doctors report - No - they have not asked for anything yet as Bailiff who knew did not pass back details to head office and she only rang two weeks ago to inform them. Until I told her that the bailiff should have informed them earlier, she just thought that as they had not done anything about it - that there was no help or assistance for her.

I have done a bit of research - Should I get her to go to the doctors and get Debt and Mental Health Evidence Form (DMHEF) V3 filled out by doctor to send to Council or send letter informing them of Vulnerability and wait for them to request it?

Can I just let you know that she is more than willing to get this sorted and get repayment plan underway, but she is so scared of the bailiffs now and keeps just getting intimidating letters from them and when she has spoken to them, they are just saying that she HAS TO pay in full immediately.

I have been at the house when 1 bailiff turned up recently, he did not realise that I was there and started the conversation with her (he did not show his ID), then said 'what's the cooo' 'what's going on?' 'you have to pay £1279.00 and I will be adding more charges'.

I then asked him to show paperwork relating and he just flicked through a folder that he had and then said that he was adding £235.00 (this had already been added in April14). She told him that she was vulnerable and wanted to get some advice and he then 'slagged off help agencies saying that they never get anything sorted and that she has to pay in full to get all the action stopped. I then told him that we were terminating the conversation and shut the door.

Since then the demands for full payment have come from the Head Office - the letter said that they may refer it back to the creditor. She rang the office to speak to them, inform them - again - of vulnerability and asking for breakdown of charges. They said they were sending it back to the creditor - but since then she has received the demand again for payment in full with the breakdown of charges and then the Notice of Required Financial Information.

Sorry to be so lengthy trying to explain.

She is so scared at the moment,

PT.

Thank you so much for this additional information which is vitally important. This demonstrates the reason WHY it is so necessary to make sure that FULL background details are required in order to provide an accurate response. I will look back on the query later on and provide a response.

Thank you so much tomtubby for taking the time to help.

I have to go out now, so will catch up later.

I just really feel for her. She has had to put up with so much on her doorstep with regards to the ex-partner's associates (horrible nasty thugs) - but this has now been sorted out.

Then the bully boy bailiffs, who just seem to be able to do what ever they want.

She wants to get all this sorted.

Thanks sooooooooooo much again for taking the time to assist and support.

Your a STAR