Ok I've been employed by a residential management company since 5th October 2012.

Initially on a part time and holiday cover basis, generally doing 16-24 hours a week, and occasionally up to 35 or so.

At the beginning of April 2014 I became full time doing average 40 hours a week after the dismissal of another employee.

Despite my repeated (literally every week) I was finally furnished with my first written contract today.

The company wanted to out my start of employment date as the start of august 2014, and had me on a basic 40 hour salaried contract.

I refused to sign until they changed my employment start date to when I actually started with the company. Initially the MD refused saying the company was worried I may try to get backdated holiday pay from the day I very started. Now bear in mind, to date, from the day I started I've take 3 days of holiday. I told them I'd happily put in writing I had no intention of doing so.

They agreed to put my start of employment date as the date in 2012 and to clarify continuos full time employment from April, and I agreed to this.

However there is a clause in my contract that says any overtime over the required 40 hours is paid at standard rate. I refused this clause as in every other employees contracts (who are in the exact same role as me, same title, same duties, literally the exact same position as me) this clause is time and a half after 40 hours.

The company has point blank refused to give me the same written terms as everyone else and their reason is that the other guys have been there twice as long as me or more and are entitled to better conditions.

I asked if they thought it was fair for me to have to work my weekend off next to someone else doing the same, but for less pay? The MD said well that's what were prepared to offer, we've taken advice and if you don't sign then you are free to leave.

I emailed him after this conversation, outlined my agree meant to the holidays clause, contract dates but that I would not accept the overtime clause.

On my way home after the email the MD rang and said they'd had a complaint about me from a matter on Thursday. I asked if it was Thursday he was referring to, he said yes.

I then reminded him I had been off on Thursday and I wasn't even in the building. He then went quiet and then said oh he meant Wednesday morning. I pointed out again that I hadn't been in Wednesday morning, I got in at 2 pm till 10 on Wednesday. He then said oh it's 3pm on Wednesday I'm talking about.

Anyone else think he's getting ready to try and stitch me up because I've stood firm on wanting the same clauses and benefits as every one else?

Hmm a few things of note here.

You worked part time upto 2014 correct.

Then been offered a new full time contract.

That full time contract is effectively the start of a new job. I think you got lucky there.

You then asked for better terms than were offered (Yes they were already in place with others) I think you pushed your luck.

Bigger companies do this all the time. As time goes on a company may change its T+Cs but will sometimes let older contracts continue as they are and apply the new T+Cs to new starters. You have to view your new contract effectivly as the termination of the part time job and the start of a full time job. Your only recourse is if they offer the better terms to another new starter that is maybe of different gender to you.

Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear

I've been working without a contract from day one, and it's only due to my pestering that they've actually bothered to put any terms in writing at all. Surely they can't fairly ask me to do the same job for less pay than other people tho surely?

if they treat you as a new starter, sadly they can.

But they've agreed to put my start date with the company as the date I actually started with the company and to specify my continuous full time employment started in April this year. I would have throught that shows I'm definitely not a new starter

new contract new job

There are others on this forum with more knowledge than me, see that they say

dont agree, the original contract is an implied contract that takes into account the terms and conditions that the person has worked under for the past 2 years. the employer shuld have put all of this in writing a month after taking the person on and is not in a position to say that it is a new employment otherwise every week people would be starting a new job because they had been paid for the last week's work and today is another day and thus a new job.

They have now offered new terms, which this person is entitled to reject as they already have a contract, just not a written one. My worry is that a company that offers individual contracts does so to divide the workforce and prevent comparisons risks claims of discrimination and I can see a very good cae for such a complaint here. However, companies that behave like this rarely see any unionisation either so this person will not get the proper assessment of their terms of employement they deserve and the employer may well do anything to stop the dissent shown by someone asking for what they are entitled to. This coud lead to further posting regarding unfair treatment in other areas so my advice is to contact the Head Office of a union that represents your job role and see about joining an open branch local to yourself and thus get a bit of advice and support taht can have some weight behind it.

One of the guys who works there as well is a union rep, we just don't have union there cos no one else in Union yet.

I got an email from the me today. His response was 'thank you for your email and I believe we would be able to sort the issues of concern. I will contact mentor on Monday morning to discuss how we can resolve the grievance you have raised'

Mentor is an outside HR advice company (I assume) so I guess they'll tell him their views and I'll have to wait till then.

Mentor are an HR product of Natwest/RBS IIRC.

You accrue the right to 5.6 weeks' paid holiday from when you start employment. This right does not depend on whether or not you have a contract.

Unfortunately you cannot force the employer to offer you the same T&Cs as anyone else. There is no general legal right to equal treatment with other employees - only a legal right not to be discriminated against due to your age/race/gender. It is reasonable to ask for fair treatment and to raise a grievance but if the company still refuses then you have to live with it or resign.

The company is legally required to give you a written statement of terms and conditions of employment within 2 months of starting. Breach of this means you can bring an Employment Tribunal claim for a couple week's pay ... but you are not allowed to bring this claim by itself you would need to have another claim to tack it onto.

dont agree, the original contract is an implied contract that takes into account the terms and conditions that the person has worked under for the past 2 years. the employer shuld have put all of this in writing a month after taking the person on and is not in a position to say that it is a new employment otherwise every week people would be starting a new job because they had been paid for the last week's work and today is another day and thus a new job.

 

Not what I was getting at.

 

Under his implied contract he had a casual/part time implied contract.

 

This new contract is salaried and full time. Clearly a different core term and condition than the job he was doing.

 

Therefore the start date should of been april 2014 for the new contract and SP confirms that they are not obliged to match terms to anyone else unless there is unlawful discrimination.. One is a full time salaried position, the other is a part time and holiday cover hourly paid position.

His holiday entitlement is based on his "working Week" therefore by backdating his new fulltime contract to 2012 there is some leeway to argue for backdated holiday pay which could result in an employment tribunal application. HENCE why I am surprised his employer agreed to backdate the new contract on offer to 2012.....

 

"The company has point blank refused to give me the same written terms as everyone else and their reason is that the other guys have been there twice as long as me or more and are entitled to better conditions"

 

This appears badly worded. What prob happened is SINCE those people started, the company reviewed the role (Which is a SALARIED POSITION and NOT the parttime/casual position the OP was on) and decided to reduce the T+Cs for NEW STARTERS which would apply to anyone taken on after the review decision has been made. By taken on that means any NEW CONTRACT FOR THAT POSITION since the review of the T+Cs was agreed.

 

http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/england/work_e/work_rights_at_work_e/contracts_of_employment.htm#h_employees_right_to_written_details_about_the_employment_contract is a usefull link for contracts etc

 

ALSO

 

You started 6th October 2012. Timescales you need to be aware off.

 

a) Any tribunal complaint for unfair dismissal and most things must be RECEIVED by the tribunal 3 months LESS one DAY form the incident or last in a string of incidents complained about.

b) You can not lodge a tribunal application except in small number of circumstances (Eg unlawful discrimination under the single equality act) unless you have 2 years complete service.

-You do not have this till October 6th. (THAT may be why they are now looking to put pressure on you. Get rid of you before 2 years is up.)

I thought unfair dismissal / constructive was 12 months? Besides getting through the October won't be a problem, they've only had 2 people leave this job in 8 years, staff turnover here is non existent. It just doesn't happen.

The unfair dismissal qualifying period used to be 12 months, but the current government increased it to 2 years.

So I had a discussion with the md yesterday and it seems that he's freely admitting they're trying to get rid of the above clause in all the contracts to save money.

He asked me what my position was if the company stood firm and refused to give the clause I've asked for, and he wasn't happy when I said I wasn't about to tell him what actions i would take regarding a decision that hasn't happened yet, nor could I understand why he would ask me, especially outside of a formal setting.

He then went on to to imply that if they did give me the clause, then it was highly likely they'd insist on another clause where it says I can't have a second job without their consent.

Seems like he's trying to say sign it as is or well kick off over your second job.

Which I think is unfair because I've been doing my other job since before I started this one, course I was going to have another job when I started out as part time!

Well I put the request for the same terms in writing. I asked for them to give me the clause I was asking for, if not then I would raise a written grievance.

Today he emailed me saying as we haven't been able to reach an agreement (I didn't even think we'd had a meeting of any form to discuss it!) and as the had made the offer of a full time contract in good faith that they were now forced to withdraw the offer altogether and put me on a 'as and when needed' rota. Which has been done. And he's rotated me in on 5 shifts right over my two weeks holiday request which went in at the start of September on order to be off for the mid two weeks of October. I've emailed the boss asking why they've ignored my holidays but heard nothing back. So pretty clear they're trying to 'manage' me out now.

Oh and I probably should add I got this email today after putting a complaint in about getting totally victimised, isolated and bullied by one of the long term employees whose been making my life hellfire 6 months. Convenient timing?

It sounds to me as though your "card has been marked".

As has been pointed out, you are in a very vulnerable position and enjoy few employment rights.

Even if you did, as as also been pointed out, you have no right to the same terms and conditions as others, providing yours are not different due to discrimination in respect of a protected characteristic.

Your employer is perfectly able to withdraw the offer of a full time contract given that you have refused to accept its terms and conditions. There is no obligation to hold a meeting and you seem to have made your position clear.

I fear you may well have shot yourself in the foot.

Well fortunately come the 5th October I'll have been there two years so in only have to hold out one more week. Once I hit that then I'll have a measure of protection at least. I'm thinking that they've decided I'm too much hassle because I dared to ask for equal treatment. Plus daring to point out the bullying that's going on, it's just very convenient that he pulls the contract offer the day after I raise a formal complaint of what's going on.

Ok further to a previous post, I was sacked today.

Called into the mds office and told without any preamble that as I had dared to reject a contract offer that would have paid me less than anyone else in the same place of employment that my contract was being terminated.

I immediately asked why I hadn't had some kind of hearing first and was told because I had rejected the offer of a contract that they didn't need a hearing or further reason to dismiss me.

My full two years service would have been up on 5/10/14.

I've had no kind of disciplinary action at all in my time there, and I've had no other issues.

I've spoken to acas and they're take is that he's intentionally done it to avoid the two year rule and hope I won't take it further. I've had no written notification of why I've been dismissed, no notice of any form of hearing at all, literally taken into the office and told to leave.

What now.

Does your contract allow for pay in lieu of notice or do you have to work notice ( which would take you over the two years)

What realistic outcome are you looking for?

Please link to your previous thread for us I cannot recall the background.

No it doesn't it outlines a disciplinary procedure along the usual lines ie investigation disciplinary then appeal if necessary excetera. Nowhere does it say anything about dismissal on the spot without actually having done anything wrong.

The previous post related to the contract they offered me after already having been there for 21 months where the other 7 guys doing the same job as me were offered over time at time and a half whereas mine was to be standard rate. Obviously I refused and asked for the matter to be considered as a grievance if they were going to insist on giving me lesser terms than everyone else. Obviously this request has been completely ignored and apparently their dismissing me today on the spot is what he has been told he is able to do.

Sorry I should also add that last week I verbally informed him that I would be asking for paternity leave in 3 months time. He replied put it in writing closer to the date

Double post sorry!

If there is no pilon clause your leaving date is about a week from now at least? Or are you zero hours/casual/agency staff?

And do you have anything in writing about, well, anything?

And again - what outcome do you want and the link to your thread, not an overview. Details matter and it'll save us going over old ground.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?431819-What-do-I-do-now-refused-equal-contract&p=4617297#post4617297

That's the original post.

And outcome? I'd like to take them to cleaners in an ideal world.