Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Sec127 (3) repealed, now gone. S. 127(3)-(5) repealed (6.4.2007) by Consumer Credit Act 2006 (c. 14), ss. {15}, 70, 71(2), {Sch. 4} (with Sch. 3 para. 11); S.I. 2007/123, art. 3(2), Sch. 2
    • We used to recommend that people accept mediation but our advice has changed. The mediation process is unclear. Before you can embark on it you have to agree that you are prepared to enter a compromise – and that means that you agree that you are prepared to give up some of your rights even though you are completely in the right and you are entitled to hundred percent of your money and even though EVRi are simply trying to obstruct you in order to discourage you and also to put others who might want to follow your example off from claiming and even though they have a legitimate basis for reimbursement. Mediation is not transparent. In addition to having to sign up that you are prepared to give up some of your rights, you will also have to agree not to reveal any details of the mediation – including the result of the mediation – so that the whole thing is kept secret. This is not open justice. Mediation has nothing to do with justice. The only way of getting justice is to make sure that this matter goes to trial unless EVRi or the other parcel delivery companies put their hands up and accept the responsibility even if they do it is a gesture of goodwill. Going to trial and winning at trial produces a judgement which we can then add to our small collection to assist other people who are in a similar boat. EVRi had been leading you around by the nose since at least January – and probably last year as well – and their whole purpose is simply to drag it out, to place obstacles in your way, to deter other people, and to make you wish that you'd never started the process and that you are prepared to give up your 300 quid. You shouldn't stand for it. You should take control. EVRi would prefer that you went to mediation and if nothing else that is one excellent reason why you should decline mediation and go to court. If it's good for them it's bad for you. On mediation form, you should sign that you are not prepared to compromise and that you are not prepared to keep the result secret but that you want to share the results with other people in similar circumstances. This means that the mediation won't go ahead. It will take slightly longer and you will have to pay a court fee but you will get that back when you win and you will have much greater satisfaction. Also, once you go the whole process, you will learn even more about bringing a small claim in the County Court so that if this kind of thing happens again you will know what to do and you will go ahead without any hesitation. Finally, if you call EVRi's bluff and refuse mediation and go to trial, there is a chance – maybe not a big chance – but there is a chance that they will agree to pay out your claim before trial simply in order to avoid a judgement. Another judgement against them will simply hurt the position even more and they really don't want this. 300 quid plus your costs is peanuts to them. They don't care about it. They will set it off against tax so the taxpayer will make their contribution. It's all about maintaining their business model of not being liable for anything, and limiting or excluding liability contrary to section 57 and section 72 of the consumer rights act.     And incidentally, there is a myth that if you refuse mediation that somehow it will go against you and the judge will take a dim view and be critical of you. This is precisely a myth. It's not true. It would be highly improper if any judge decided the case against you on anything other than the facts and the law of the case. So don't worry about that. The downside of declining mediation is that your case will take slightly longer. The upside is that if you win you will get all your money and you will have a judgement in your favour which will help others. The chances of you winning in this case are better than 95% and of course you would then receive 100% of your claim plus costs
    • Nice to hear a positive story about a company on this form for a change. Thank you
    • too true HB, but those two I referred for starters - appear to be self admitted - One to excuse other lockdown law breaking, by claiming his estate away from his consistency and London abode was his main home the other if he claims to have 'not told the truth' in his own words via that quote - to have mislead his investors rather than broken lobbying rules   - seem to be slam dunks - pick which was your law breaking - it seems to be both and much more besides in Jenricks case Starmer was director of public prosecutions yet the tories are using seemingly baseless allegations for propaganda and starmer is missing pressing apparent blatant criminality in politics
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
      • 1 reply
    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

      Please can you advise what I need to do today to get this done. 
       

      Many thanks 
      • 81 replies
    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
      • 160 replies
    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
      Also, we will be to demonstrate to the judge that we are fair-minded and that we don't mind bringing everything to the attention of the judge even if it is against our own interests.
      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
        • Like
  • Recommended Topics

Orange Charging for Delivery Reports


maybox
style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 6355 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Orange have been charging for delivery reports (1p per report) since July 2006.

 

At no point did orange inform me (or any other customers I imagine) that this would happen and I only noticed it after agreeing to renew my contract and looked at my bills. Nowhere in the T&Cs of Orange's contracts does it say it charges for delivery reports.

 

Can I get out my contract charge free on the basis they have broken their agreement to inform me of new charges?

Link to post
Share on other sites

It probably does say in your T&Cs that call charges may change etc. However, this is disgraceful IMO - how on earth can they charge for delivery reports without warning you? Doubt you can legally get out of your contract free however.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd keep quiet. 1p for a delivery report? They charge me 10p! Delivery reports have always been a chargeable service - there is a system generated SMS sent to you when the message you sent has been safely delivered to the distant terminal (but not necesarily read). This acknowledgement to you incurs a charge, usually the same cost as the message you sent outbound. I am unaware of any network that provides these reports FoC, and having been with Orange since 1996, the charge has been in place ever since they ended their free SMS service.

 

As for them not informing you - it's in the Price List, and not really Orange's fault if you didn't notice it. If you don;t need these reports, why not turn them off - that way there is no charge!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd keep quiet. 1p for a delivery report? They charge me 10p! Delivery reports have always been a chargeable service - there is a system generated SMS sent to you when the message you sent has been safely delivered to the distant terminal (but not necesarily read). This acknowledgement to you incurs a charge, usually the same cost as the message you sent outbound. I am unaware of any network that provides these reports FoC, and having been with Orange since 1996, the charge has been in place ever since they ended their free SMS service.

 

As for them not informing you - it's in the Price List, and not really Orange's fault if you didn't notice it. If you don;t need these reports, why not turn them off - that way there is no charge!

 

I'm not sure you know what I'm talking about. No other network charges for delivery reports to the best of my knowledge. If orange have been charging you 10p for them, then you're being ripped off BIG TIME!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure you know what I'm talking about. Vodafone and O2 also charge for this - I also explained precisely what I meant by a 'delivery report'. It is an inbound SMS that is billed to my account that confirms an SMS message has been delivered. Why do you think you should get a service like this for free? If you don't think it's worth 1p - stop using it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having been an orange customer for 6 years, there certainly has never been a charge for delivery reports before.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Having been an orange customer for 6 years, there certainly has never been a charge for delivery reports before.

 

I'm afraid it depends on many variables - espcially the mobile tariff your handset it on - just because some people don't receive a charge for a particular call or service, does not mean others do not... as you recall, this thread was stared by someone complaining they were chargesd 1p. My Tariff - OVP charges 10p, and is itemised as such.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure you know what I'm talking about. Vodafone and O2 also charge for this - I also explained precisely what I meant by a 'delivery report'. It is an inbound SMS that is billed to my account that confirms an SMS message has been delivered. Why do you think you should get a service like this for free? If you don't think it's worth 1p - stop using it.

 

Can you link me to a site that confirms this for me? Sorry I'm not convinced any other operators charge for delivery reports and Orange charging you 10p?? Where's that come from? Orange used to be free - I should know, I've been a customer since 2000.

 

Orange have never charged for delivery reports before. Why some customers are now being charged and others not is a mystery (read the comments at the bottom of this page Weblog - Money - Times Online: New Orange charges: fair or foul? )

 

Also the service should be free. Why should I not be entitled for free to know whether or not a message gets delivered? I'm paying for a service and I should be entitled to know whether or not that service is correctly implemented. The actual cost of informing me is probably 100 times less than the 1p they want to charge anyway.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you link me to a site that confirms this for me? Also the service should be free. Why should I not be entitled for free to know whether or not a message gets delivered? I'm paying for a service and I should be entitled to know whether or not that service is correctly implemented. .

 

In order;

 

1) Regarding some customers being charged and others not - it's because of a thing called tariffs. All customers are NOT the same, only those in the same groups. I was told Orange have in excerss of 158 different tariffs (some still running since 1996). You get what you sign up to. There is no mystery.

 

2) Tariff details are only shown on websites relating to the currently available product. The actuall tariff and attendant costs are loaded into each network's billing system with the relevant code, which pulls up the costs for that customer. You can request your own tariff be notified to you, but for 'competition' reasons, networks do not issue a grid showing the differences of their previous offerings, old or new.

 

3) Why shouldn't everything be free? If I post a letter, should RM send me a postcard saying they delivered my letter successfully, and do it for free. No, wait - they charge (or used to) 49p for advice of delivery. If a text message costs X to send and a network has the ability to advise said message has been delivered, and YOU want to know it has - it's only reasonable the thae cost of so doing is billed to the person requesting the service.

 

4) You are paying for the sending of an SMS. If you wish the confidence of knowing it has been delivered, that's an extra. Looking back at some earlier bills, I note that I had 'inclusive' texts, and the the cost was 0.00, however it came out of my allocation, so inclusive, not 'free'. On switching tariffs and being charged 10p a go, I turned off Receipts. IF the system coud tell you when the message was READ, I might reconsider, but all these are additional services, and nothing to do with the basic SMS service.

 

5) As to the latest news that Orange will be charging for itemised billing - again, Free Itemised Billing is part of my tariff and they cannot change this unless/until they force me off onto a different one.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Flippin' ek - i wish people would get off their 'look at me being cutting' puerile horses and try read things both properly and in context.

 

Incidentally, Royal Mail return mail for free if it is undeliverable. If Orange informed you automatically that text messages are undeliverable I'd have no qualm here. Fact is they don't - you have to switch on delivery reports for the luxury of this service.

 

I was put on to new "better" tariff after threatening to leave Orange. I did not incur any new charges for itemised billing nor delivery reports in the 1st month. Second month and onwards I've been charged for delivery reports. This to me is not on and must breach their side of the contract somewhere. I don't think it's any coincidence that the timing of delivery report charges comes in alongside their new parent company Wanadoo - who have massive debts to pay off.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Differnet issues. Delivery reports have been charged for long before France Telecomn thought it was a great idea to buy the network from Vodafone - the Wannadoo nonsense has probably resulted in the imposition of the £1.50pm charge for itemised billing - the fact that Orange appear to have imposed this by default on those customers without giving them a chance is a scandal - especially if they're not going to be prepared to show that it actually COSTS them £1.50 to collate the data and add X number of pages to a bill they're sending out anyway. But I digress.

 

Royal mail may indeed return mail that is undeliverable, but that's not the issue - at least compare like with like! We're talking about delivery of the item (not its return) so the networks charge for this because they can, and some of us are happy to pay the price.

 

As for switching to a 'better' tariff - I have a number of mobiles on Orange and the 'best' tariffs available are those that you cannot sign up to anymore! (The best being contract rates for making calls, but NO line rental) it was only offered for about 14 months, but there's no way I'm switching tariff. When you do switch, all the prices change to a new level - and whilst you may be told of the 'headline' rates, the boring stuff like delivery receipts, free calls to 0800/0500 and/or voicemail are seldom hilighted, but change nonetheless. That's why a bland statement that your network charges someone X for a particular feature or service doesn't meant they do the same to everyone else. Having been a customer of theirs for the last 10 years, I learned the hard way!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had about 6 different tariffs on Orange during my time with them - none of them charged for delivery reports. Of course, I can't say that none of them do, but I would be very surprised. I would be even more surprised if these charges are on contracts but not PAYG, which they aren't.

7 years in retail customer service

 

Expertise in letting and rental law for 6 years

 

By trade - I'm an IT engineer working in the housing sector.

 

Please note that any posts made by myself are for information only and should not and must not be taken as correct or factual. If in doubt, consult with a solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

 

Please click the star if I have helped!!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had about 6 different tariffs on Orange during my time with them - none of them charged for delivery reports. Of course, I can't say that none of them do, but I would be very surprised. I would be even more surprised if these charges are on contracts but not PAYG, which they aren't.

 

Well 6 out of 158 can hardly claim to be representative, of my 8 network connections, 2 are PAYG and only use SMS, but as these are telematics devices, they don't generate delivery requests, 4 are on the OVP tariff and charge 10p per report, so they're not used. The last two have bene ported to Vodafone, and they charge 5p. In each case, when the charge was discovered, the service was discontinued.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...