Looking for some advice. I bought an xsara Picasso in may 57 plate with 47k miles from a dealer. We didn't take it for a test drive but had it started up and eveything seemed ok. Drove the car 40 miles and it was spraying out power steering fluid everywhere. Managed to get dealer to get it fixed and the car has been fine until 3 weeks ago the exhaust fell off. Turns out the bracket holding the back box had worn away so took it to motosave. Got a call to say wasn't just back box the middle section also needed replacing and the bracket holding the exhaust to the cat convertor was worn and would probably be an mot failure as the bracket comes attached to the cat they cant just replace the bracket. He didn't need to do it that day though and told me about £200 to replace the cat.

But fixed the rest of the exhaust at a cost of £125. 2 days ago I took the car in to get the aircon refilled as noticed over the warm period it wasn't working to find that it has a leak in it and they've had to put some dye in and told me to run the car for a week with the a/c on and off then take ot bqck so they can check but they said it was hissing really bad.

It's been about 4 months and this car has cost me £125 plus an a/c unit I may never be able to use as I've read these things can be expensive to fix if it's a big problem.

Where do I stand legally at this point with the dealer? I paid for the car o my CC. Surely 4 months later I shouldn't have these problems? The car was put through an mot before we bought it.

finaldj

Have a read of the following, make notes :-

http://www.shetland.gov.uk/tradingstandards/documents/Guidanceforsecondhandcardealers.pdf

Clearly the car clearly isn't of 'satisfactory quality' you should stop using it. Even though sometime has passed, you should still be able to reject the car. Contact the dealer, send the following amend/template Recorded Delivery to the Dealer.

Don't speak to the Dealer over the phone, communicate via emails/letters.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/action/letter-rejecting-a-second-hand-car-bought-from-a-dealer

Contact your card provider ask to carry out a Section 75 refund, explain that the car has had numerous faults and you are rejecting it under Section 14 of Sale of Goods Act 1979 as it isn't of 'satisfactory quality'.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/section-75-of-the-consumer-credit-act

Get reports regarding the faults, send them with the form the card provider will send you.

Thanks for getting back to me with all that info... I wasn't sure where I stood.

I was saying the car was 4 months old it's actually under that I bought that car on the 12th May,

I paid £2.5k for the car. originally the power steering pipe went after 40 miles had to be towed back to a Garage that he uses to get his cars fixed. then like I said the Bracket holding the Back box on came away from under the car it was all rusted and The recover guy tied some rope too it while we got it down to our local motosave. We left the car with them and went for a coffee at a local cafe, got a call 30 mins later to come and have a look at the car.

He took me under and showed me the back box we were getting replaced and a centre piece of the Exhaust that also needed replacing, he also showed me the bracket that was holding the Exhaust onto the CAT and told me that the bracket was also worn and depending who MOT's the car they will either see it or not but it will fail if they do and it's unfortunate that the bracket comes attached to the CAT so can't just replace the bracket I asked how much and he said off the top if his head about £200-£220 from a similar car. He did say it's ok to run for now so wouldn't do it that day as said there was actually nothing wrong with the CAT.

He did suggest we could take it to a Garage and they might be able to wield the bracket. He also noted that the Air intake/emissions tester at the end of the Exhaust was also loose which would have failed on the emissions test but he said that just needs tightening up.

So I paid the £125 to get it fixed. It was when we took it in this week to get the Aircon filled and the guy in the Garage said when they when to test it for pressure it was hissing like mad “I dont understand cars”

So I wasn't sure like you do with a Garage are they just trying to get more money out of you or are they genuine so they put this Dye in and told us to run with the Aircon on and off for a week and take it in this Tuesday coming to have a look, at the time they had it running in the Garage they said that the Dye hadn't come through might need to run it for a bit to see where the leak is.

Which prompted me to look up costs for a replacement Aircon unit if it was broke and Prices start from £200 upto £750 depending on the problem

For a car that is 3 ½ months old to me (nearly 7 years old) in reg terms I wasn't sure where I stood legally from him arguing that the car has normal general wear and tear for its age.

As a dealer I would have assumed he would have had the car looked over e.g had the Aircon checked for problems and the Exhaust?

When we got the car it had little MOT on it he agreed to put it through an MOT for us using his own mechanic that he uses all the time. When we got the paperwork back the MOT certificate had some advisories on it 2 near worn tires and a rear bush worn.

But I accepted that car with this and the cost for that was about £190 but I accepted that. It wasn't till I put in the MOT certificate number online and saw that he had actually had to have some failed work done on the car and had it fixed but didn't inc that in the paper work just what the advisory said.

So if you factor in £125 for the Exhaust the £25 groupon voucher I had for the Aircon refill I don't think I can use the Dye £30 and the possibly £200 Cat converter thats £380 additional expense on the car. Not inc work having to be done on the A/C unit.

As for not being able to use that car Unfortunatly I have to use the car as it gets the wife to work and Daughter to nursery so I don't have a choice. I know the dealer could argue that the car has been used from 47,800 miles it is now at 50k miles but I would just cut my loss with him and accept my 2.5k back and call it quits with the cost of the work I have paid for the car. e.g £125 for the Exhaust and the 2 Advisory on the MOT that cost about £190 that I had fixed.

Read page 6, Giving false information to, or deceiving, consumers (misleading actions - regulation 5).

The documentation you were given, doesn't match the MOT check you did online - it should match up, so you weren't given the full history of the extra work carried out, is that correct?

'When we got the car it had little MOT on it he agreed to put it through an MOT for us using his own mechanic that he uses all the time. When we got the paperwork back the MOT certificate had some advisories on it 2 near worn tires and a rear bush worn.

But I accepted that car with this and the cost for that was about £190 but I accepted that. It wasn't till I put in the MOT certificate number online and saw that he had actually had to have some failed work done on the car and had it fixed but didn't inc that in the paper work just what the advisory said.'

Sorry to read of your problems with the Xpic finaldj. i have had three Xpic's in the past and would buy another if they were still in production. Diesel of course.

Now, you may not like this, but i keep telling people who know little of the motor car, always get car checked over by a mechanic or AA before parting with cash. It saves money and hassle in the long run.

You should have insisted that all advisories be rectified before delivery. The rear exhaust bracket on the Xpic is a well known fault and when i buy one i always take it to local garage for reinforcement---this is permanent. Is your air con working at present? If so, use it at least once a week to keep problems at bay. If not working, it may only need a second re-gas.

Barring the usual French electrical problems, the Xpic is generally a good car, which is why people hang on to them for so long. Also try and verify mileage as some of these problems are not usual on a car with that mileage.

Is it petrol or diesel?

Apart from service items, most Xpic MOT failures are associated with front suspension parts which are cheap to replace.

I'm sure if you got all these "Sair" bits sorted out you would have a good car for quite some time.

If you are hoping to reject it, I am sorry but you 'must' stop using it. You can't say it is faulty but continue to use it.

Thanks for getting back to me and sorry for the delay in getting back I can't get on much due to baby and the site doesn't work that well with mobiles.

@rebel11 - the cars MOT was due to run out September this year I said no thanks then and he said well what if I was to stick in through and MOT would you buy it then and I said yes...so he took payment and then sent it in for an MOT.

He told me that there were some Advisory stuff to do on the MOT but nothing major so when I saw the documments I wasn't too fussed with what work there was to do. it wasn't till I got back home that I realised you could check online at MOT's done on the car so when I checked I noticed that when he put it in it has failed and needed some work doing in it I'm sure it was something to do with (front suspension parts) I can't say for sure without going back in to take a look again but I was a little annoyed that he hadn't said or inc the paper work for it.

I know ppl always say take someone with you that knows cars but the only person I know lives about 90 miles from me so didn't have that option.

@Conniff...The car I hope is safe to drive nothing major seems wrong with the car other than me having to get parts of the Exhaust fixed (the possibility of the cat convertor replacement next MOT) and the possiblity of the Aircon not working I wont know about the Aircon till tuesday as it is booked in to get looked at. it might be just a simple job they didn't know at the time thats why I have been running around with the Dye in it since last Tuesday.

As for using the car well if it wasn't road worthy I wouldn't drive it. but unless the wife starts using taxis everywhere to get to work and daughter to nursery then I do not have any other means to buy another car I dont have the money to pay for taxis my daughters nursery fees are nearly 3/4 of my wage I had to pay for this car on my CC

Take a snapshot and print off the online MOT report.

The dealer put 12 months MOT on it which it passed with advisories, how is it relevant that it failed the first MOT, was fixed and then retested? It would ring more alarm bells if it passed the first MOT without any advisories, it is after all a 7 year old car which isn't going to be perfect.

The dealer put 12 months MOT on it which it passed with advisories, how is it relevant that it failed the first MOT, was fixed and then retested? It would ring more alarm bells if it passed the first MOT without any advisories, it is after all a 7 year old car which isn't going to be perfect.

correct, advisories are not failures and do not need immediate repair.

Yeah I took the car with advisories I wasnt bothered about that. I'm not that bothered in one sense that it failed and had it repaired.

This is what bothered me. He is a dealer selling a car at roughly the same price as other places for age and milage (accepting it's age) I understand some thing's might need doing. But it's not like he said to me I tell you what this is wrong that is wrong I'll knock £500 off if you want to sort them out yourself.

So I find myself buying a car that's needed failed work doing didnt tell me flgiving me the option if I still wanted to buy so got the work done anyway and didn't tell me. Then I accepted it had adviseries took it away 40 miles down the road had to be towed back to him because power steering pipe went o it. He paid the get it fixed. Then 2 month later the exhaust fell off I had to get that fixed. Then get told the bracket to the cat convertor is worn away and would be an mot failure so £200 for that and now the possibility of a none working A/C unit and a whole one of them to replace is about £750. So I've had the car 3 months so how much responsibility do I need to take?

It is very relevant because the OP should have been given all the information before purchase, the dealer has to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

The OP might of decided not to buy the car on the basis of the failed MOT - advisories.

The dealer put 12 months MOT on it which it passed with advisories, how is it relevant that it failed the first MOT, was fixed and then retested? It would ring more alarm bells if it passed the first MOT without any advisories, it is after all a 7 year old car which isn't going to be perfect.

It is very relevant because the OP should have been given all the information before purchase, the dealer has to comply with the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

The OP might of decided not to buy the car on the basis of the failed MOT - advisories.

Nope, sorry, advisories are not faults but potential faults, and a dealer would not be under any obligation to declare them.

If the advisories were serious enough then they would be failures.

Why would you need to tell someone that a car failed the mot but has since passed once the repairs were done? The fact is that it has now passed and the past is irrelevant.

We are talking about the failed MOT, why information was withheld from the OP, it is all revelvant to the OP's decision making process.

Read the Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 and what it says.

Nope, sorry, advisories are not faults but potential faults, and a dealer would not be under any obligation to declare them.

 

 

If the advisories were serious enough then they would be failures.

 

 

Why would you need to tell someone that a car failed the mot but has since passed once the repairs were done? The fact is that it has now passed and the past is irrelevant.

Been told it was the high pressure hose on th A/C £280 to fix inc labour.

Thought I might just add to this that the car has gone in for a sevice today and we've been having over rev issues and as I suspected we need a new clutch £400 so an hour later I get a call to say that while doing the service on the car they have also seen that the steering rack is leaking hasn't said if it's bad or not and I know you can just keep topping these up at least until a repair can be done but the did say that the cost would also be £400 to get this replaced but wouldn't do this yet.

Going back to the start of all this I bought the car in May the garage has said this car really shouldn't have been sold and that taking into account general wear and tear for a 57 plate car some stuff like the leaking steering rack,faulty aircon and worn cat bracket/needing a new cat covertor were all signs that car had these when purchased.

I have now emailed the car dealer as the car is just a few weeks over 6 months old and it's had no end of problems that I've asked for an answer from him.

After speaking with the garage they have suggested that if we decide to keep using the car to get the repairs done and if we need to take legal action over it that rather than get the money back for the car ask the court to award all if not part of the repair costs back and they would be will to give a report on the condition of the car on their behalf.

I haven't suggested to the dealer I am intending court just given him upto date info on whats been happening with the car and what my legal rights are and asking for a reponse.

This is the cost so far on the car taking into account wear and tear since May.

Rear bush and 2 back tires (£195) advisery when bought car

(£130) to fix power steering pipe (dealer fixed this after it went after 40 miles of driving the car)

New Exhaust as old one fell off in August (£125)

Drop link fixed (£30)

Bracket holding the convertor worn (need a new cat at somepoint as comes soldered on) (£220)

Aircon had a leak (£30 for Dye) then been told (£280) to fix the fault not done that yet

Clutch needs replacing (£400) doing that tomorrow

Steering rack leaking been told (£400) to replace that

Total cost to date £1800 I paid £2500 for the car so we'll see how this goes

I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

all the parts that have failed are wear and tear parts,next

time you buy a car make sure you get it checked by some one who knows cars

sorry

Some of these repair figures seem a bit high. £195 for two tyres and a back bush????????

Some of these repair figures seem a bit high. £195 for two tyres and a back bush????????

Yeah we got cooper tires fitted at £70 each and then £55 for the bush.

When we had the chrysler it was about £125 to replace the bush each time it went.

Not sure if I mentioned most of the repairs I get done are at motosave.

I thought a new thread might be better for this one.

So if anyone doesn't know what motosave are they are a bit like Halfords/Troy when it comes to general repairs etc

So as per my other thread I took the car in for a service a week last monday and I asked them to check the clutch as it had been playing up which they told me I needed a new one so fair enough kind of figure this from the sound of the car.

So because it was late evening they said they would book the car in Tuesday afternoon to do the clutch as it's about 3/4hrs work.

So wife calls them about 5pm to see if the car is ready to be told that a linkage had been broken while installing the clutch and a few other things they had to change while installing it but didn't say.

So we had to wait while Wednesday while they ordered a part from the main dealer. so fair enough wasn't too happy but these things happen.

So come late wednesday we had to phone motosave to find out what was happening and they told the wife that they couldn't get the car started and have been looking at the electrics to see if they had knocked anything even trying their own software on the ECU unit but said that their unit or whatever they use wouldn't recognise it.

So we had to wait till thursday morning for their electrics guy to come in and look at the car.

We got a call Thursday morning to be told that because the Battery had been unplugged for 24hrs that when they plugged it back in it sent a surge to the ECU and fried the board. So they said it was their fault and it can sometimes happen on Xsara Picasso's when the battery has been left off. They said they would replace the ECU either with a new one £900 or a reconditioned one at £600.

So late thursday they phoned to say they had found one in Plymouth and were sending ours down their to retrieve the data from it and send the other one back for Saturday.

Again it got to 5pm Saturday so the wife called them to see if the car was up and running to be told it hadn't turned up but he had looked online and was tracking it for coming in on Monday.

So the wife said well I have no car for work on Monday now and it's a 6 mile trip and my daughter (1 year old) also goes to the nursery there as well it's 3 buses to get from where we live which is unaccetable. so they offered to cover taxi fares.

Wife calls Monday "no ECU" why well it was dispatched today so will be Tuesday now. so she asks will taxi fares to and from work then tomorrow. "well I suppose it will have to be but it's coming out of my wages now"

So come today Wife again rings is the car ready to be told "it's not come today they have dispatched it today with a 2 day wait so will be friday latest now"

So wife says well can you hire a car for me then as it's now not just work it's everyday running around we need it for and it's becoming a problem you've had my car 2 weeks now.

Well he says problem is cost is coming out of our Christmas money as HR said it has to because it's our fault and we are already covering Taxi fares and £600 for the ECU it's not company policy to get hire cars. you'll have to contact your insurance.

Wife kicked off and they eventually said they would look into it and let her know tomorrow.

I googled plymouth ECU's and one company seems to come up and they tend to fix them rather than replace them at what looks like a cost of about £200 at the most.

It's turned into a real ball Ache has this.

Hi fin

The Goods and Services Act 1982 applies.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/supply-of-goods-and-services-act-1982

Thanks for that.....

We got the car back on Friday evening they said they had taken it for a test drive and everything seemed ok after replacing the ECU....

However today my wife said she had the car in the wrong gear when setting off at the light and stalled the car, upon restarting the car the engine management light came on and it hasn't gone off, the car seems to run ok though. She has contacted Motosave and they have said bring the car in and they can have a look at what the fault code is.

My wife said to the guy could this be related to the ECU and he said it could be a number of problems but tried to deny that it would be anything to do with that. so the wife said to him what kind of warranty does this ECU come with and he said he doesn't know as it was a like for like swap he doesn't have any documentation for it.

I'm just wondering when the engine management like comes on is it the ECU that is telling you that there is something wrong with the car? because I'm not going to be passed off that it's just one of them things if they pick something up that is wrong with the car.

When I took it in 2 weeks ago the car was running like a dream even though it needed a new clutch we only got some high revs a hand full of times it was just me saying to the wife when it goes in for a service ask them to look at the clutch and it's been nothing but problems since.

Thought I would update this...3rd of December and we still have problems with the ECU picking up a fault with the coil pack they have changed it twice now and engine management like comes on and off when it pleases. can seems to run ok and motosave say they are running out of ideas how to fix the problem and that it can't be an ECU fault that only reports problems with the car.

Tried invein to explain to them that the car and the old ECU didn't have any faults till I brought it in and 3 days after getting the car back from you nothing but problems with the engine management light coming on and off like a yo-yo. they have moaned about having to get their electrics guy in to look at it as said it could be the circuit.

I have explained that could it be the replacement ECU that could be faulty as they haven't said but I think they have just had the chip replaced not the whole ECU I don't think I am getting the full story here. they are getting on the virge now of washing their hands of the car and putting down to car fault not ECU.

They have even gone as far as telling the wife that the guy the originally worked on the car was on holiday week before last and when he came back they sacked him. but this electric guy said it was down to the battery been left off 24 hours and it was just one of them things so I don't know why this guy got the sack or why we needed to even know.

My uncle is a mechanic has been for a long time own company is a bit too far for us to take the car to look at. but he did say that it is hard to damage an ECU and they they have probably connected the battery the wrong way and fried it that way. he also said that £600 to replace an ECU is unlikley maybe £200 at the most.

Been trying to find a number for head office but even they seem hidden only an address going to try and take the matter further before court action as can't sell the car with engine fault on all the time.

Is the replacement new or used?