Hi all

I sent a CPR 31.14 to Reston solicitors and got thefollowing response in brief.

Please can someone look it over and any advice would begreatly appreciated.

(Already acknowledged claim via MCOL)

1. Claim issued via County Court Business Centre (Northampton) which is a procedure specifically provide for in the CPR.
   

What does that mean? Anydifference being a County Court Business Centre?

Paragraph 5.2A of practice direction 7E specifically states

“The requirement in paragraph 7.3 of practice direction 16 for documents to be attached to particulars of contract claim

does not apply to claims started using an online claim form,

unless particulars of claim are served separately in accordance with paragraph 5.2 of this practice direction.

How do I defend if I can’t get what I need?

1. See no reason to supply copy of contract/agreement as you would have received one at time of opening account?
   
2. Probably did but since it was around 2006 can’t find it.
   

Am I entitled to a copy?

1. Stating documents I asked for are not mentioned in POC and therefore CPR does not apply.
   

I asked for (using template from this site)

1: the agreement.

You willappreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD16 para 7.3,

where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of thecontract or documents constituting the agreement should

be attached to or servedwith the particulars of claim and the original(s)

should be available at thehearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contractshould also be attached.

2: theassignment

3: the default notice

4: the termination notice

5:statement of account

Although you requested documents in order to file a defence/counterclaim.

We point out that the POC contains sufficient information in order for you to understand what the claim relates to:

1. Thedate the account was opened.

2. Theaccount number

3. Theoutstanding balance

4. Thename of original creditor

5. Thefact account has been signed to Claimant and when it was assigned.

Do I ask again for information I need or can I submit adefence that I do not have details needed to defend the case

– could statutorybarred need statement of account to find out.

Again any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Righto, well they are correct in that electronically issued Claims are exempt from attaching documents. However, you would expect them to be sent (and I suspect the courts believe they are being sent) separately and as soon as possible after the claim has been issued.

CPR apparently is more relaxed in small claims - however, there comes a time when they will have to disclose the information they are going to rely on.. usually about the time allocation papers are sent out.

You can only request items mentioned within the Claim by CPR

Restons are a particularly obnoxious firm who will try to obstruct a Litigant in Person as best they can..

Do you have a thread in respect of this claim ? If not, perhaps you can provide the text of the PoC so we can advise how you would go about defending a claim that is vague/ambiguous.

Thanks for reply.

Working nights will post in POC in the morning.

In the meantime a bit confused with CPR.

1. Although you requested documents in order to file a defence/counterclaim.
   
2. We point out that the POC contains sufficient information in order for you to understand what the claim relates to:
   

1. The date the account was opened.

2. The account number

3. The outstanding balance

4. The name of original creditor

5. The fact account has been signed to Claimant and when it was assigned.

The above is the POC with details missing.

I used this site to help/research what to do and used the CPR template on this site which asks for:

The agreement, the assignment, the default notice, the termination notice and statement of account.

How do I get these if it's not on the POC

Sorry if am missing something getting a bit confused here

have you sent a CCA request

and what is the debt type/OC please

dx

dx100uk

The debt is an old credit card.

Not sent CCA request (but will do in the morning) thought that requesting a CPR would achieve same - asked for copy of the agreement in CPR. Thought the solicitors acting on behave of claimant would need a copy of this for the Courts?

cpr can be wriggled out of

and pestons are a master

CCA MUST be complied with

within 12+2 working days

when have you got to file by?

and you ack'd the claim?

dx

you also need to fill this out please

and post here

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-April-2014**

you also need to fill this out please

 

and post here

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-April-2014**

Will do that in the morning working nights.

Claim if memory right 30/7/14 so have to file on 31/8/14 - was away when court claim arrived so put me behind a bit sending CPR to Restons.

Yes acknowledged within the 14 days.

Name of the Claimant ? Cabot Financial Limited

Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to.

Date of issue - 30/07/14

What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim?

The Claimant claims payment of the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between the Defendant(s) ad Bank of Scotland (Aqua Card) dated on or about 01/05/2007 and assigned to the Claimant on 25/07/2011 in sum of 954

PARTICULARS a/c no:- XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

DATE ITEM VALUE

01/07/14 Default balance 954

Post Refrl Cr NIL

Total:- 954

What is the value of the claim? Total with Court fee and Solicitor's costs £1084

Is the claim for a current or credit/loan account or mobile phone account? Credit Card

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after 2007? on or about 01/05/2007 see POC above

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt purchaser

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Unsure

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Unsure

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Default sums” – at least once a year ? No idea

Why did you cease payments:- Just can't recall

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? Don't think so.

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

Other info:

Had a problems with another credit Card Capital one and by getting info regarding account found it was statutory barred (100%) and may have mixed these 2 cards up when receiving letters (Still get the odd letter from DCA regarding Capitol one Card and ignore them). I just don't have any info regarding this claim. Checked Credit ref Agency and can only find default from Cabot nothing from Aqua.

For this debt to be statute barred, you would have needed to cease any payment or acknowledgment of the debt from around March/April 2008 at the latest.

Your timeline is as follows :

Issue date 30.07.2014 + 5 days for service = 03.08.2014 + 14 days to acknowledge = 17.08.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 31.08.2014. So you have about 10 days.

Their Particular of Claim is so vague as to be non existent and this can be brought to the attention of the court. If you have not already done so, then get a CCA request out PDQ not forgetting to include the £1.00 statutory fee.

CPR would have been pretty useless to you, because they havent really mentioned anything at all.

Your best source of information would have been a Subject Access request, but after a claim has been issued, there simply isnt time as they have 40 calendar days to comply and would almost certainly ensure htey took every one of those days.

You can be equally as vague in your defence.. for example..

 

You do not deny that you entered into an agreement with BOS.

 

You are unable to confirm if it was reduced to writing by way of contract as the claimant has not provided a copy.

 

You deny receiving any Notice of Assignment and the Claimant is required to prove they are able to bring this claim.

 

You deny having received statutory notices in the form of a Default Notice required under s87(1) of the Consumer Credit Act.

 

You deny having received statutory notices in the form of Notice of Sums in Arrears as required by the Consumer Credit Act.

 

 

The claimant has not provided a full accounting of the amount they have claimed so I am unable to assess if the amount being claimed is accurate.

 

 

 

Please do not blindly copy what I have posted above - these are just suggestions and would need fine tuning by those who have more legal knowledge. They are just points for you to consider.

I have attached information regarding the Notice of Sums of arrears which you should have received at least once a year.

Have you checked your credit file to see if this account is being reported and on what date the Default was first registered ?

[ATTACH=CONFIG]52882[/ATTACH]

Thanks for replies

Have you checked your credit file to see if this account is being reported and on what date the Default was first registered ?

Thanks for replies

 

 

Yes first default date Aug 2011 from Cabot nothing from Aqua. Also Default balance is about £200 less than what claim is for (not including court and solicitor's cost that adds another £130).

Well Cabot themselves cant simply start the Default reporting up.. Aqua/BOS should have entered the original prior to the date you have advised. In respect of the amount being claimed, then you would be disputing that anyway, as they have not provided statements.

Hi again.

Can someoneplease have a look at defence below (thanks in advance)

One question – Ifthey have not produced a copy of the agreement/contract should I still state:-

“1.Paragraph 1 is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Bankof Scotland for credit card services.”

Or should I state:

“1. Paragraph 1 Iam unsure of any past agreements with Bankof Scotland for credit card services.”

Particulars of Claim

1. The Claimant claims paymentof the overdue balance due from the Defendant(s) under a contract between theDefendant(s) and Bank of Scotland (Aqua Card) dated on or about 01/05/2007

2. And assigned to theClaimant on 25/07/2011 in sum of £954

PARTICULARS a/c no: -XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

DATE ITEM VALUE

01/07/14 Default balance £954

Post Refrl Cr NIL

Total: - £954

Defence

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic innature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific responsehas not been made.

1. Paragraph 1 is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Bankof Scotland for credit card services.

2 Paragraph 2 is denied I have no recollection of receiving a Notice ofAssignment. The claimant has failed to issue any statements of account on how allegedsums owed were attained. The claimant has failed to provide any evidence ofagreement/contract/breach as requested by CPR 31. 14.

Therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement with the Claimant; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show evidence of service of Notice of Sums in Arrears

(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equityto issue a claim.

3. As per CivilProcedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove theallegation that the money is owed.

4. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is deniedthat the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

5.. I have also requested information pertaining to this claim by way of a CPR31.14 request to clarify its claim, the Claimant has failed to respond.

6. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that theClaimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

One question – If they have not produced a copy of the agreement/contract should I still state:-

“1.Paragraph 1 is accepted I have in the past had agreements with Bankof Scotland for credit card services.”

Or should I state:

“1. Paragraph 1 Iam unsure of any past agreements with Bankof Scotland for credit card services.”

How about ...

Paragraph 1 is admitted I have in the past held accounts with The Bank of Scotland for credit card services however I do not recall the particular account number referred to and have requested a copy of the alleged agreement pertaining to this claim.As of this date the claimant has failed to comply with my section 78 request and therefore remains in default of s78.

Regards

Andy

Great thank you.

Is it worth adding a line? About being at a disadvantage filing a full defence due to having no paperwork and claimants refusal to send any even though I tried to request information via CPR 3.14

You have already stated in point 2 that you have made a CPR 31.14 request and that they have failed to comply....dont add waffle.

Andy

You have already stated in point 2 that you have made a CPR 31.14 request and that they have failed to comply....dont add waffle.

 

Andy

OK thank you