I have received a charge notice from an operator of a car park in a large town,

at first I was mystified as to why since I did buy a ticket for £2.20.

According to the ANPR cameras I was in and out within 30 minutes.

Here is my problem

- I parked my car in the second bay inside the entrance next to a high top white panel van.

I walked round the back of the vehicle and spotted the pay machine on the other side of the entrance through which I had entered,

I inserted the fee and the ticket I bought shows the time of purchase 1 minute after the ANPR shows me arriving - so far so good.

I shopped and I left in approximately 30 mins.

Unfortunately, there are two parking systems in operation,

the pay machine I used belongs to a different operator and is used for on street parking

(but is physically on the ground adjoining the other operator, albeit with a low barrier around it),

the pay machines I should have used and entered my registration into were totally obscured by the large white panel van

and I just didn't see them (they are very compact and slim - black in colour and stand side by side).

I have only worked this out through looking at Google Street View and spotted it after a few minutes of study.

I realize it is an error on my part,

I wrote to the company acknowledging what I'd done but they aren't interested and point blank refuse to respond to any of my points.

Since I bought a ticket there was never any intent on my part to dodge charges,

the ticket clearly ties in with the ANPR evidence it's just that I've used the wrong machine.

Does anyone have a view on whether its worth me going through the POPLA route and lose the option to pay the reduced amount?

On the day, the car park was almost empty, it wasn't as though I was occupying the only space which another vehicle could have used.

I would appreciate a reply even if you agree that I should pay the charges, I have a attached a screen grab with annotations for reference.

Thanks for reading this

No one would agree that you should pay this invoice

It is the same thugs that use to do wheel clamping that has now stopped

You need to send a soft appeal to the parking company

Who are they?

They will reject your appeal they want your money

You then appeal to POPLA that will cost parking company

You should win

Have a read around the forums

Ignore is old advice parking company's do issue court proceedings you can defend it and they will lose

It's Highview Parking - the parent company is called Ranger Services who trade as Highview. Ranger Services actually manufacture the ANPR equipment

and write the software and by the look of things host the enforcement for customers.

I've written twice to them now the response to my second email was "read our first email". I have no experience of contacting POPLA and am wondering

if I have any realistic chance.

Of course you have a realistic chance. Get them under GPEOL if they play silly beggars.

There's always a chance. Plus you get the added pleasure of costing the parking company £27+VAT for having to issue you with a POPLA code. Win Win anyway

Have a read of the forums for far better advice, but your only reply to Highview should be along the lines of "Not a Genuine Pre Estimate of Loss. Please issue me with my POPLA code".

If and when they do (you might not ever hear from them again once they know you're going to fight it), come back to the forum and someone will help you with your appeal to POPLA, which most win. And even if you lose, it's only binding on the parking company, who would then have to spend more money to take you to court, knowing that they'll (on the balance of probability) lose anyway.

You have nothing to lose by taking it through every stage, but it'll cost Highview

When they refuses your submissions did they give you the POPLA code they are obliged to issue? It might be disguised as a reference number so check the ref no and if it is 11 digits long it is the POPLA code.

No POPLA code and hiding the code as something else are both no-no's so write back to them and complain that you havent been given the popla code/code hidden in document and send a copy of their rejection letter and your letter to the BPA as a complaint about the parking co being in breach of their trade association regulations. You will get your POPLA code then.

If it was hidden then you need to appeal to POPLA and make your appeal on the basis of no breach of contract due to confusing signage-show what you ahve here plus further detail about location of their machine and signage. Also say that the charge demanded from you does not represent their losses as that has already been agreed at £2.20 (or whatever the fee for 30 mins should be) an their demand for more than this represents an unlawful penalty rather than a claim for liquidated damages.

Another point on your appeal should be that you believe that the ticket machine money goes to the landowner and there has been no loss to the company acting on his behalf and therefore you want proof of contract between the landowner and the parking company that allows them to form contracts with the public in their own name rather than just acting as agents of the landlord before you will consider paying the £2.20 fee again.

Hi and welcome to CAG

With all this to and fro-ing you may just run out of time to appeal the ticket.

As it is, they have already rejected your representations so technically you have appealed therefore they should have offered you a POPLA code.

If they haven't done so or hidden it within the letter somewhere, get back on to them and demand this code forthwith. Once you have that code, you can appeal to POPLA. Don't worry about how to appeal. We have so great guys who can help with that.

All they could realistically claim for is the lost money and an admin fee, not the stupid amount they want.

Tried

I've drafted a PM but cant send it since I don't have 15 posts under my belt

When they refuses your submissions did they give you the POPLA code they are obliged to issue? It might be disguised as a reference number so check the ref no and if it is 11 digits long it is the POPLA code.

No POPLA code and hiding the code as something else are both no-no's so write back to them and complain that you havent been given the popla code/code hidden in document and send a copy of their rejection letter and your letter to the BPA as a complaint about the parking co being in breach of their trade association regulations. You will get your POPLA code then.

If it was hidden then you need to appeal to POPLA and make your appeal on the basis of no breach of contract due to confusing signage-show what you ahve here plus further detail about location of their machine and signage. Also say that the charge demanded from you does not represent their losses as that has already been agreed at £2.20 (or whatever the fee for 30 mins should be) an their demand for more than this represents an unlawful penalty rather than a claim for liquidated damages.

Another point on your appeal should be that you believe that the ticket machine money goes to the landowner and there has been no loss to the company acting on his behalf and therefore you want proof of contract between the landowner and the parking company that allows them to form contracts with the public in their own name rather than just acting as agents of the landlord before you will consider paying the £2.20 fee again.

just offer it up here, you will get more help from others then.

 

Here is my problem - I parked my car in the second bay inside the entrance next to a high top white panel van. I walked round the back of the vehicle and spotted the pay machine on the other side of the entrance...

 

 

 

 

On the day, the car park was almost empty, it wasn't as though I was occupying the only space which another vehicle could have used.

 

I have to ask, because I wouldn't do it , but why would you park next to a big van in an almost empty car park?

Because of my car's natural turning circle and the fact that the car park slopes down to the left as you drive in,

it was a natural place to stop.

Since there no bays marked I left a sensible space between myself and the van,

but it's irrelevant where I parked as I would have had the same view had I walked from the furthest space away from down the slope

- the van still blocked my line of sight to the pay machine.

Hindsight - always a great thing !!

I am currently awaiting the outcome of the POPLA appeal - 5th of September is D day.

You did use the correct points in your appeal to POPLA I take it?

Time will tell - I used the points kindly detailed by other members in previous posts. I guess what I'd like, is to think is that whoever reviews my appeal actually has

some common sense - I suspect my rose tinted spectacles and my age are to blame for that. The wait is almost over anyway and will be what it will be.

Well, at last I have the result from my POPLA appeal - it's gone my way. A massive thank you to all who gave me advice and an idea of what to include in my words.

My own account would have enforced the charges according to the assessors notes by admitting that I used the wrong pay machine. However, the assessor highlighted

that the operators of the car park failed to give an acceptable breakdown of the costs & losses incurred. Since they failed to do that he has allowed

my appeal to stand. Here are the extracts from the official letters.

PARKING ONPRIVATE LAND APPEALS PO Box70748 London EC1P 1SN 0845 207 7700

Parkingon Private Land Appeals is administered by the Transport and EnvironmentCommittee of London Councils Calls toParking on Private Land Appeals may be recorded

12 September 2014

Reference

Always quote in anycommunication with POPLA

Mr **********(Appellant)

-v-

Highview ParkingLimited (Operator)

The Operator issuedparking charge notice number *********** arising out of the presence at GlassStreet car park, on 18 July 2014, of a vehicle with registration mark *******.

The Appellant appealedagainst liability for the parking charge.

The Assessor hasconsidered the evidence of both parties and has determined that the appeal be allowed.

The Assessor’s reasonsare as set out.

The Operator should now cancel the parking charge notice forthwith

Here is the longer version

On 18 July 2014, a parking charge notice was applied to a vehicle with registration mark ******* for not making sufficient payment to cover the full duration of the visit.

The Operator’s case is that the site is pay and display and terms and conditions of parking of use of this site state that sufficient payment is required to be made for

parking at the site. The Operator has produced photographic evidence of the vehicle which show that the Appellant’s vehicle entered at the site at 00:36 and exited

at 13:43 without making sufficient payment to cover the full duration of the visit. They enclosed evidence showing that the Appellant did not pay to park at this site.

The Appellant has made a number of submissions, however, I will only elaborate on the one submission that I am allowing this appeal on, namely that the parking charge

notice is a penalty and it does not represent the actual loss suffered.

The Operator rejected the Appellant’s representations, as set out in the correspondence they sent because, they state that a breach of the car park conditions had

occurred by not making sufficient payment to cover the full duration of the visit.

The burden of proof is on the Operator to provide supportive evidence to prove that the parking charge notice is not a penalty and represents the loss suffered.

The Operator should have provided a breakdown of the costs incurred and they should have shown an initial and consequential loss in order to support their case.

I am therefore, not satisfied that the Operator has proved that the parking charge notice represents the loss suffered.

Accordingly, I allow this appeal.

I think this was covered in the reply from ericsbrother - thank you very much.

Good luck to anyone appealing against these leaches.

See. GPEOL wins every time.

Seems to be the only thing the assessor was interested in anyway - thanks for the advice, It's in the bank for future dealings.

what that means is Highview should have sent you a bill for the excess parking plus, say, an admin charge of £x and not an automatic demand of whatever they decide to put on their signs.

Had you not paid anything it is possible that the assessor would consider the amount set out on the sign to be a true breakdown of their losses so it is important to differentiate between demands of excess charges and breach of contract penalites in free car parks.

The reverse of this is what do you get for your £2.20 you paid? can you sue for their breach of contract?

A sensible result and good for you but as the assessor qualified their decision I would warn people who havent paid to park when there is a charge to word their appeals very carefully indeed as the parking co's will want to earn something.