Hi all!

I have been looking for help with little success for a week and then I found this wonderful active forum and I got my hopes up.

Our story goes like this... My friend John was doing his masters in London and lived in the property of a certain woman,along with other roommates. In June, he was alone in this house in Bexley and I came from Greece to work in the UK. We gave the landlady a higher rent and told her that a third friend would also arrive in July. All was well, we paid our agreed rent in full,although there were no papers signed, what was described to me as commonplace in UK. Our third friend came, we all found jobs in the City and just like that.... with no warning whatsoever, we one evening returned from work to find the locks changed, our stuff inside. We called the landlady, who admitted that the house had been repossessed and that she had known all about this but she said she hadn't known that they would take the house that particular night (sic). The 'agency' only allowed us to take our ids and passports the next day but they said that the 'client',the bank, would not allow us to take the rest of our stuff... Our clothes, underware, shoes, computers, cameras, bags... everything they kept. We had to sleep in buses, the next day, we had to skip our jobs, we found expensive accommodation and had to buy some new clothes to wear. John was depressed, he has to extend his studies as his books, his research, his paper are all inside and he was on a tight deadline, we had to skip multiple days of work to find new rooms and so on.

What can we do?? How can we get our stuff back?? Who should we move legally against for this ordeal? Shouldn't the bank have warned the tenants before repossessing the house, give us a few days to evacuate? Can it be that the landlady did not have to warn us? Plus,we later found out, our landlady was not the owner of the house but the wife of the owner, who.... is in jail. When we told her to tell her husband to tell the bank to let us in, she mumbled something about them not getting on well, which may mean she rented the house out without his consent.

A labyrinth of inconsideration and outright shameful conduct that cost us dearly, both financially and psychologically. Thanks in advance for your answers.

GK

I surgest the following.

go back to the agent and explain as to your tread

You are allowed to retrive your possession by making appoinment with the agent

Inform the police that your are a vitaim of deception

Consider this a lesson in life

But remember not all people are the same

GeorgeKar,

Hi and a very warm welcome to CAG.

I suspect your thread would be better placed in the "Residential lettings" forum.

Site Team will move this for you.

Is there any "tenancy" agreement in writing at all ??

Hi georgeKar

Welcome to CAG

I agree with f16 as this is a tenancy issue I am going to move your thread to the Resdiential Lettings Forum, I will leave a short redirect so you can find your thread as you will get better advice in that area.

Our main problem is now with the bank, as they supposedly, according to the agency, do not allow them to let us remove our personal belongings. As for a written tenancy agreement, there is none, although all the neighbors can testify that the 'landlady' was regularly in the premises and of course a number of calls to her were made before the repossession. There are also tenants who resided there before us also on verbal agreemients, and of course anyone with an ounce of common sense and willingness to understand, and here I mean the bank, would also easily see what stuff is ours, but they do not seem to care. I guess our problem is twofold so I trust your opinion on where I might get better advice.

BTW, we went to the police to ask them to help us, but they said they could not do anything because it was not a criminal case. Then I asked them to be present when the agency would give us our ids to be witnesses that they would not allow us to take therestof our stuff, which they also declined, saying that they could not be used as witnesses in civil cases. In the end, I had a neighbor come to serve as witness, which made the agent much more polite than in the beginning, before the witness arrived...

Hi

Could you just clarify a couple of thing please.

1. Was the Landlord using an Letting Agency to Let Out the Property?

2. Exactly who changed the locks on the property the Bank or the Agency?

3. When they repossed the property were you given any information as to who done the repossession?

4. Do you have receipts for all your rent payments?

5. If the Landlord was using the agency to let the property were the agency aware of the repossession beforehand and that you were residing tenants?

GK,

I've never heard of a (I assume Letting Agency) "agency"

"renting" a property with no official paperwork.

This is not my "area".... But it would appear to me your "fight" is with the "agency".

They arranged the "Let".

Other CAGGERS will advise you on the legal bit.

Best of luck

F16

Crikey what a mess! But just a couple of points.

Most landlords demand a written agreement, simply because it can be very difficult to get tenants to leave if notice periods, etc. are not signed and agreed.

The lender would normally send several letters to the property to tell any tenants present that the house is being repossessed. I believe this gives the tenants time to appeal to be allowed to stay a little longer in order to clear their things - obviously if arrears have accrued the owner would have known the house was being repossessed but a tenant would not, so the law was changed to make sure they are aware.

Sadly it is too late for that now, and without a tenancy agreement you would not be able to prove to the Court that you were tenants.

Can you find out who the lenders were, do you know the name of the bank? Repossessing lenders are sometimes quite flexible in terms of letting people collect their belongings and they would have the right keys! The letting agents are now pretty much out of the picture as the previous owner has lost the house.

Sorry no-one locally has given you much help!

Sounds like friend John was sub-letting, with or without LL knowledge, also the Lender was unaware LL was letting anyway.

Your status would appear to be that of John's guests. The LA is no longer involved, just the entity with possession.

Most Banks would not seek possession of rented property without giving Ts due Notce.

John was renting a room in this property for many months along with others without a formal agreement. When I came, I spoke to her and arranged a rent as we did when the third guy arrived. According to our understanding, we would be paying her a fixed sum every two weeks and top up electricity and gas. She was responsible for the rest of the expenses. We used the address for our correspondence (banks, state' etc) normally but we forwarded to her all the correspondence addressed to her husband. When I say 'the agency' I do not mean a letting agency but a repse the fact tbat ossession agency commissioned by the lending bank, Barkleys (as we found some days after, as they initially would,t give us the name,).

There was no notice addressed to the tenants for at least 2 months before the repossession, nor was anyone sent to warn us.

We have no slips since the landlady was coming personally to receive the rent but we can prove we were there for months through our correspondence, our presence witnessed by many, our possession of keys to the property and of course the fact that she was seen with us and that she never made any complaint that we were tresspassing or something.

As you correctly state, the 'agency' which other posters had assumed was a letting agency, is in fact the bailiff ( I presume) which takes possession & changes the locks. A separate 'agency' usually attends with the bailiff to make sure the property is safe and he turns off water and removes inflammable materials etc.

So, as you appear to have located these two groups of people, you need to speak to them. If you haven't located them you need to do so by trying to find out from the 'landlady' . Also try speaking to the bank. Ask both the bank & the bailiff & the cleaning up people what they suggest.

What can be done is the bailiff can let you in to remove your stuff if he believes you are the owner of the property. But the problem is that he will probably say he will only let the actual property owner in. But he is in jail.

Your problem seems to be that everyone is fobbing you off - including the police.

BUT, the police are very often completely wrong and they rarely seem to have the slightest understanding of law.

I would imagine that you have a right to expect the police to retrieve your possessions because the 'landlady' you mention has committed a fraud against you by renting out the property in the first place. This fraud was compounded by her actions then denying you access to your possessions. You could claim to the police that it might have been her intention all along to deprive you of your property . It is therefore stolen property and you have the right to expect the police to retrieve it & bring criminal charges for theft.There is no doubt you have a case for damages etc against her.

Because her actions have been fraudulent, you can make a formal complaint against her to the police and don't forget to include the subsequent theft of your possessions. The police are obliged to investigate this complaint and if there is adequate evidence a criminal case would be brought against the 'landlady'. Under these circumstances you can use the police investigation to obtain all the details from the 'landlady' of who the bank, bailiffs, & her husband are & their contact details because the police should be getting all these details when they do their investigation anyway.

I would imagine a decent policeman might gain entry while you remove your belongings. But, unfortunately, it is probable that everyone involved are all a complete pain in the backside and all will witter on about not being able to do anything without proper authority.

This means you will have to find a lawyer to bring the matter before a court so that the court can order the bailiff to open the property for you to remove your belongings.

So, the two things you can do now is find the nearest 'Citizens Advice' office ( Google it) and explain the problem to them. They should help you & help find a lawyer & it should cost you nothing. The second is complain to the police as above and the third thing is get all contact details from the landlady - where she lives etc also where her husband is in prison who the bank is and she must also have contact details from the bailiff. You will need all this information - go, get it now.

Then try speaking nicely to the bailiff who I believe has a legal obligation to open the property as long as the owner or owners agent is present to verify your belongings are yours and can be therefore be removed.

It is normal procedure that a bailiff can return by arrangement with the owner of a re-possessed property to allow an owner to remove their belongings if they had been unable to on the actual day of repossession when the locks were changed. This is a legal requirement for the bailiff to return. The only complication here is you need the cooperation of the landlady to do this.

The bailiff has discharged his duty by gaining legal repo and I can't see any Policeman allowing entry to unknown person (not occupier).

OP needs to contact the person with lawful possession of house/flat to arrange collection of personal property,

I was just saying exactly what you have just said in a much more long winded way caused by attempting to explain where the legal type logic led - which is to the person with lawful possession & if that fails because they can't be got hold of then applying to a court as an alternative. Using the police to make a complaint could be helpful in this respect if the person with legal possession is unhelpful and if they are a bank you can be sure they will be extremely unhelpful.

Just follow my instruction as you have no agreement and you not from uk.You were deceived/played/con whatever you want to call it you were taken for a ride.

Police are the best bet as they have records of this type of fraud.

UK LL&T law tends to be civil law. Even with alleged criminal acts (illegal eviction, fraud) Police will need some persuasion to take an interest.

Just follow my instruction as you have no agreement and you not from uk.You were deceived/played/con whatever you want to call it you were taken for a ride.

Police are the best bet as they have records of this type of fraud.

I have to agree with Mariner 51.

This will be considered a civil matter and any action would have to be via the County Court system.

If i read this right under

Mortgage Repossessions (Protection of Tenants etc) Act 2010

2010 CHAPTER 19

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/19/introduction

Notices or letters addressed to occupiers/tenants should have been given by the Mortgage company/Bailiffs or both given before any repossession, giving occupiers/tenants time to find alternative accommodation.

LL wife said she knew about pending mortgage Repossessions, did she go around and remove theses notices or intercept the letters !

Once a mortgage Repossessions has taken place lawfully

Bailiffs should place notices on the door or windows telling people/tenants who to contact and arrange to collect any belongings left behind.

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repossession/about_repossession/repossession_by_a_landlords_lender

If i read this right under

 

Mortgage Repossessions (Protection of Tenants etc) Act 2010

2010 CHAPTER 19

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/19/introduction

 

Notices or letters addressed to occupiers/tenants should have been given by the Mortgage company/Bailiffs or both given before any repossession, giving occupiers/tenants time to find alternative accommodation.

 

LL wife said she knew about pending mortgage Repossessions, did she go around and remove theses notices or intercept the letters !

 

Once a mortgage Repossessions has taken place lawfully

 

Bailiffs should place notices on the door or windows telling people/tenants who to contact and arrange to collect any belongings left behind.

 

http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/repossession/about_repossession/repossession_by_a_landlords_lender

Forget all that. ......

My bet is the whole deal was done in cash !!!!

Then what ???