Hi

I'm just looking for a bit of advice.

I have 4 old credit card debts,

all are now with debt companies and

I'm under step change on a DMP paying off about £5 a month to each one

with the exception of the one with a ccj (about to go past the 6 year point and hopefully off my credit rating)

which I pay about £18 to each month.

I may have an opportunity to get access to some cash to offer full and final settlements of these debts,

but the thing is I want to repair my credit rating, so I want to make sure these are marked as settled in full - how do I make them do this?

Also, what amount do you think I could 'get away with' offering?

Obviously the less the better for me.

I've had these debts since I was 18 - 13 years!

I've been making regular payments through step change to keep the baliffs away after initially falling behind with payments.

I've been good for the past 6 years and just paid through step change regularly in the hope

that I could one day find a way to do a full and final settlement on them all.

One thing I wasnt sure of was whether it was worth checking whether these 13 year old debts are actually enforceable.

Is there any hope they could not be?

I now owe around £4.5k, originally it was £8.5k. T

hey were with

capital 1,

HSBC,

Barclaycard and

Egg

originally.

I was a stupid 18 year old and I do actually find it unbelievable looking back

that they kept increasing my limit and offering me cards when I was completely honest

with my pitiful £600 a month income at the time!

what's my best option here?

Should I check the enforceability?

Should I offer a pathetically small percentage

whilst at the same time pointing out that it could be deemed irresponsible lending giving me what they did?

I honestly was a stupid stupid person back then with little concept of money

and credit and I've paid for my mistake ever since.

I just want to get debt free and repair my credit rating with the hope of maybe eventually

being able to get a mortgage and a house of my own.

I've learnt from my mistakes! I'll never live on credit again like this!

Any ideas and suggestions of the best way to go would be welcome!

Thanks

Full and final settlement on credit cards? Really?

Stop that thought of thinking right away, you may not OWE the money and have been cash cowed.

Please list

Original Lender

Current Debt Owner (DCA etc)

Amount

Rough start date

1) To each creditor do a CCA (Do not sign the request, use a digital signature)

2) To each Original creditor do a full subject access request, you are asking for everything! (do not mention the word statement instead replace with transaction lists) You must sign this one. I reccomend including a copy of proof if id and address. (Photocopy passport driving license and council tax bill)

3) Look for any PPI and begin reclaim process (Start a separate thread here for it)

4) Look for credit card charges such as late payment fees and over limit fees. Create a thread for each card and begin the reclaim process charging them interest in restituition of 24.9% apr on every charge. In many cases this amount surpasses the amount outstanding and some people have had their Credit records repaired when they have argued it.

It does sound like they have recklessly lent but the bigger morale issues and far easier in my eyes to get a result from is tackling the unlawful credit card charges. They have applied charges to your account which are unlawful AND THEN CHARGED YOU COMPOUND INTEREST ON THEM!

This will help you get all the paperwork in order.

Hi SabreSheep

Thanks for the advice!

One thing I probably should have mentioned, I did claim back the late payment charges a few years ago, over 6 years ago, possible about 11 -12 years ago. I've had no late payment charges since then because the cccs froze my interest way back probably 10 years ago (or maybe even more?). Current debt free date they are giving me at the rate I'm going is 2025!

So is there any point in doing this cca?

My debts are as follows;

Debt 1.

Original Lender; Barclaycard

Current Debt Owner; Cabot Financial

Amount; £1370 (originally £2205)

Rough start date; DMP with CCCS 10 years ago approx, original debt began 2003.

Debt 2.

Original Lender; Egg

Current Debt Owner; Cabot Financial

Amount; £1400 (originallly £2230)

Rough start date; DMP with CCCS 10 years ago approx, original debt began 2003.

Debt 3.

Original Lender; HSBC

Current Debt Owner; Robinson Way

Amount; £1060 (originally £2600)

Rough start date; DMP with CCCS 10 years ago approx, original debt began 2003.

Debt 4.

Original Lender; Capital One

Current Debt Owner; Fredrickson International

Amount; £620 (originally £1400)

Rough start date; DMP with CCCS 10 years ago approx, original debt began 2003.

If I went down the irresponsible lending route, would that have to involve solicitors etc? I can't afford to incur any court/solicitor fees etc :/ Don't want to upset them either in case they stop cooperating with the DMP, I can't afford for interest to be charged again! Not even sure it's a good idea to list my debts on here? :/

At the end of all this I'd really like a good credit rating ASAP purely for a mortgage, so I can't afford to stop making my monthly payments either. I've been well behaved for so long!

Sounds like youve been well and truelt cashcowed.

I hope that dmp isnt a paid for dmp either.

No, it's through step change (was CCCS), they set it up for free and don't take any charges. They're a charity.

You should be discussing this with Stepchange. Yes you may be able to negotiate reduced F&F offers for which your credit record is noted as fully satisfied. But some debt owners will say that they will only treat as partial settlement, as they then think you may then think about settling in full.

Have you mentioned whether you have checked your current up to date credit record ? If not, it might be worth doing this to see what is still on there.

Hi,

I did get my credit record about 6 months ago. I have a rating of 1/5, so pretty bad, but the only debt which still appears is my CCJ, which will fall off next summer.

The thing is, when I do eventually get in to the position to be able to apply for a mortgage,

I want to be honest with any mortgage provider I apply to and be able to honestly say I have no other debts.

Also on a DMP of course I'm not allowed to get any more debts.

I just want them gone so my record can begin to recover at long last!

I'm tired of this hanging over me, it's been there my entire adult life

I think at the end of the day, if they won't mark it as paid in full, I won't agree to pay a lump sum.

There's little point if it's going to remain on my credit record for another 6 years from the date

I paid it that I only partially settled.

This would be no better than I am now would it in the eyes of a mortgage provider?

These debts are only on your credit record for 6 years from the original default date. The CCJ is on there because presumably that was obtained during the last 6 years.

I am not sure whether these debts could be put back on your credit record by DCA's if you stopped paying via the DMP. Perhaps someone else can answer that. So if the debts are not on your record currently, I am not sure it makes any odds whether the debt owner agrees to a F&F offer as fully or partially satisfied, as there is no debt on the record to mark against.

The reason for your poor credit score will be the CCJ, previous debts now removed still having an affect and presumably also that you don't have any ongoing new credit on the record. If you are not on the electoral register that won't help either.

I would say that even if you paid off all your debts, you could be a few years away from being able to apply for a mortgage at a decent rate. You will be asked about your debt situation and would have to mention the previous DMP. Once you have resolved these ongoing debts, you should speak to a local independent mortgage brokers who has access to the whole of the market and see what they say. You might only be able to access, adverse credit providers who charge a high rate. But if you take out say a 2 year fixed and show that you can repay the mortgage reliably, you may then be able to apply for a mortgage at a better rate.

Thanks for the reply

What I'm not sure of, is if I pay these debts off, whether marked as full or partial settlement, will that appear on my record as a new event for the next 6 years, even though I've not missed any payments on my dmp for over 6 years now with the exception of the ccj? Or, seeing as the date of the original missed payments was over 6 years ago, will it not even appear at all?

The way I see it, I absolutely do need to clear the debts before I can apply for anything, as my dmp doesn't allow me to get new credit anyway, plus once the dmp is gone I can perhaps look at ways of building my credit. Perhaps by using a credit card which is paid off each month in full for a few months. Would this help bring things back up?

I am on the electoral register, so that's ok.

So I guess the thing I need to really know, is is it worth me trying to see if these debts are unenforceable or not? Once I know that, and assuming they are enforceble, I can begin sending offers of full and final settlements to them.

I'm just not sure what the best plan of action is now, after what Sabresheep said about I may not even owe the debt?

Once a debt has bene removed from your credit file after 6 years as past, it can NEVER be re-entered on it. The ONLY time it could possibly come back is after court action.

My advice? CCA everyone. If you are paying DCA@s, then definitley CCA. If you dont get a reply in the statutory timeframe, cease payments until they provide a valid agreement.

Once a debt has bene removed from your credit file after 6 years as past, it can NEVER be re-entered on it. The ONLY time it could possibly come back is after court action.

 

My advice? CCA everyone. If you are paying DCA@s, then definitley CCA. If you dont get a reply in the statutory timeframe, cease payments until they provide a valid agreement.

Agreed that would be a sensible move to send the CCA requests to the DCA's. But they might be a bit confused when you have a DMP. Suggest that you speak to Stepchange about all of this, before you send any letters.

Surely stepchange should have done something about this long ago. Especially about CC debts that have likely been passed around a few times.

Surely stepchange should have done something about this long ago. Especially about CC debts that have likely been passed around a few times.

Stepchange will have many thousands of ongoing DMP's. I doubt that they can review all of these on a regular basis and still deal with all the new enquiries. I suspect that they set them up and only look at them, when they have an incoming call or letter.

Ok, so with the 'unenforceable debt' thing in mind, I took a look through step changes website for advice whilst waiting for them to get back to me, and found this;

http://www.stepchange.org/Debtinformationandadvice/Typesofdebt/Creditcarddebt/Writeoffcreditcarddebt.aspx

So it would appear that even if I can claim the debt is 'unenforceable', it still won't be written off and I will still be liable for it, it's just a matter of when they sort their paperwork out? I still won't be out of debt with this method?

If this is the case, it seems to me full and final settlements are the only way to go? I don't want these debts following me around for another 13 years!

Once a debt has bene removed from your credit file after 6 years as past, it can NEVER be re-entered on it. The ONLY time it could possibly come back is after court action.

 

My advice? CCA everyone. If you are paying DCA@s, then definitley CCA. If you dont get a reply in the statutory timeframe, cease payments until they provide a valid agreement.

If I do this, I will be in trouble again. I'm trying to avoid adding anything new which is negative to my credit record. Refusing to make payments will leave me in a worse position than now won't it?

It won't leave you in a worse posiition, in fact you may find that some of the companies actually owe YOU money.

In all seriousness I would ditch the DMP and do it yourself, you will initially have hassle but you can be firm with the people who shout loudest and say if they do not co-operate they get £1.00.

instead of full and finals look at 'snowballing' some of these - by this you pay off the smaller debts first, then the bigger ones start reducing their amounts and you pay them off... it is an alternative to the pro-rata method. Had I used the pro-rata mehod on my debts I would still be paying them now, instead I am relatively debt-free.

In contacting some of the original creditors you may find they will offer you discounts, so take advantage of this and offer your own, you may be pleasantly surprised at how low they will go - especially as such a long time has elapsed and the chances of them taking court action lessen.

Hmm this sounds like a dodgy tactic to me if I want to improve my credit record, not fire all my creditors up. At the moment all my interest is frozen, it has been for years. Doing what you suggest just rings alarm bells to me. I don't want baliffs turning up again. I don't want interest to be restarted because I've been a**sy with them. I'm not completely convinced that anyone would owe me money. Reading on the step change website at the link above, it advises the following;

'Unenforceable debt

Under the Consumer Credit Act, there are situations in which a debt becomes ‘unenforceable’. Don’t be confused by this - if a debt is considered unenforceable this does not mean it has been written off.

Under the Act, if a creditor has made an error on your credit agreement, the debt becomes unenforceable until the error is corrected. The Act also gives consumers the right to request a copy of their credit agreement and, while they are waiting for this information, the debt is also considered unenforceable.

What does this mean?

If your debt is unenforceable, this means that your creditors cannot take out a court judgement against you, or demand back items on credit or hire purchase whilst you are waiting for the correct paperwork from them.

It does not mean that your debts are written off. You will still owe any money outstanding to your creditors and charges and interest could still be added to your debt whilst you are waiting for the information you have requested or for errors to be corrected. What’s more, once your creditor has provided you with the paperwork requested, your debt becomes enforceable again.'

So to me I'm reading that getting any of this debt labelled as 'unenforceable' is just a delaying tactic. I will still have to argue about the debt and probably pay it back, just after a load more arguing and agro. I don't see the point in that.

The original creditors sold the debts on long long ago. The debts have since then been passed around to debt buyers, many more than once. I don't think the original creditors will give 2 hoots what I do, it's not their problem anymore.

Not sure what you mean by snowballing, but will look into it. I do have the ccj which has to take priority when anything is paid off. This is also the largest debt.

Whilst I can see your viewpoint I think you have been 'conditioned' into thinking that the debts - even though they may be unenforceable - are still legal and due to the creditors.

I am going to back out of this as clearly I can't add anything useful and don't want to end up being moderated by the site team.

Hmm this sounds like a dodgy tactic to me if I want to improve my credit record, not fire all my creditors up. At the moment all my interest is frozen, it has been for years. Doing what you suggest just rings alarm bells to me. I don't want baliffs turning up again. I don't want interest to be restarted because I've been a**sy with them. I'm not completely convinced that anyone would owe me money. Reading on the step change website at the link above, it advises the following;

 

'Unenforceable debt

Under the Consumer Credit Act, there are situations in which a debt becomes ‘unenforceable’. Don’t be confused by this - if a debt is considered unenforceable this does not mean it has been written off.

 

Under the Act, if a creditor has made an error on your credit agreement, the debt becomes unenforceable until the error is corrected. The Act also gives consumers the right to request a copy of their credit agreement and, while they are waiting for this information, the debt is also considered unenforceable.

 

What does this mean?

If your debt is unenforceable, this means that your creditors cannot take out a court judgement against you, or demand back items on credit or hire purchase whilst you are waiting for the correct paperwork from them.

 

It does not mean that your debts are written off. You will still owe any money outstanding to your creditors and charges and interest could still be added to your debt whilst you are waiting for the information you have requested or for errors to be corrected. What’s more, once your creditor has provided you with the paperwork requested, your debt becomes enforceable again.'

 

So to me I'm reading that getting any of this debt labelled as 'unenforceable' is just a delaying tactic. I will still have to argue about the debt and probably pay it back, just after a load more arguing and agro. I don't see the point in that.

 

The original creditors sold the debts on long long ago. The debts have since then been passed around to debt buyers, many more than once. I don't think the original creditors will give 2 hoots what I do, it's not their problem anymore.

 

Not sure what you mean by snowballing, but will look into it. I do have the ccj which has to take priority when anything is paid off. This is also the largest debt.

A CCA request or a Subject Access Request will not affect the status of a debt in regards to the limitations period, nor are they an admission of liability.

Any data/documents supplied on a CCA request must of course be compliant with the CCA 1974 as amended, or be a properly formatted "reconstituted" agreement, so what is supplied may satisfy a CCA request But may Not be enforceable, it may have mistakes, missing elements that will make such an agreement unenforceable. Such Errors Cannot Be Corrected.

So will they ever turn around and say to me 'Ok you don't owe this debt, it's no longer owed to us by you and has been completely written off'? Is there any hope of that?

I don't want this to come biting me back in 5 or 10 years time when another law comes out saying they can now claim it, as has happened with my husband with overpaid income support from 14 years ago! We thought it was statute barred and he didn't have to pay it back, as they'd not contacted us about it on over 6 years, but then they changed the law and now they can now do an attachment of earnings!

So will they ever turn around and say to me 'Ok you don't owe this debt, it's no longer owed to us by you and has been completely written off'? Is there any hope of that?

 

I don't want this to come biting me back in 5 or 10 years time when another law comes out saying they can now claim it, as has happened with my husband with overpaid income support from 14 years ago! We thought it was statute barred and he didn't have to pay it back, as they'd not contacted us about it on over 6 years, but then they changed the law and now they can now do an attachment of earnings!

If you do the CCA requests on the debts ( not the one with the CCJ as it is too late on that one) and then see what they come back with. There have been cases where debts have been written off, but this is not automatic, just because the DCA can't provide the CCA or there are issues with it. It is more likely that the DCA will say that just because they can't provide the CCA, does not mean that the debt is not due. But as has been said, the DCA cannot note your credit record, if you stopped paying, because the original default applied by the original creditor has gone past 6 years along time ago.

Government debts such as overpaid income support, council tax etc, are a totally different issue.

income support is a DWP debt that always has been outside the statute of limitations. Fundamentally different to personal debt

Thanks for all your help.

I've called step change this morning and they've not really given me the answer I was hoping for. Seems I'm in a worse situation than I thought really.

She said the ccj has to be settled in full, otherwise they can and will pursue me for it in the future, because they have a court order and no reason to let me off for anything. They're getting 3x the amount my other creditors are getting a month at the moment. So looks like I have no choice but to settle this one in full.

The others she said may accept full and final offers, she dismissed what I said about 'Maybe they're not enforceable?' as not worth even trying. But maybe I should at least try while I'm waiting for a formal offer of a lump sum to pay these debts off. I certainly can't afford to settle all the debts in full, so as far as the 3 non ccj debts go, it's partial or nothing.

Then I asked her about all the default notices I've been getting lately from one of them. I've not missed any payments on my DMP, and I'm now being sent new default notices which will apparently remain on my file for 6 years from the date I received them! Now I'm beginning to wonder why I'm even bothering to try to settle the debts at all! Seems no point when I have another new 6 year sentence to serve! Can I make it a condition that if I settle any of these debts either partially or fully, they revoke these default notices? These debts are so old it just doesnt seem fair that I've been paying regularly for so many years that I now have this new problem on my record

You cannot keep getting Default notices, that is WRONG, so you need to scan in the documents without your personal details so we can help with these. Which debt is it in particular, as without any names we can't do much at all.

Thread moved to Debt Collection Agencies forum.

Regards

Andy