I was stopped at a red light in jan because I had my mobile phone in my hand.

I was given a fixed penalty fine which I paid.

That money was refunded to me and I have now received a court summons.

I am pleading guilty by post.

From what I can see this is because I have a foreign license (USA).

Am I likely to get a £1000 fine because of this? Or jail?

It is my first offence and I have been entirely compliant with all of this but

I'm worried I'll be penalized greater due to my license status

even though the police officer said the points will transfer to my uk license when I get it.

Please advise!

Any points you receive will be added to a shadow driving licence record with the DVSA.

The fine will depend on the circumstances, your income and a whole other range of variables.

Have they identified any further offences?

No further offenses identified. I was not on my phone, I was lost and using GPS. I told officer this and it's in his witness statement.

How large is the fine likely to be? Why was the FPN given then refunded? I don't have access to bank statements before the due date of the paperwork (thurs) so will have to submit what I've out with no bank statements. I'm worried about a large fine.

Even though you wasn't making a call, you were still using a hand held mobile telephone whilst driving by using the GPS function.

The FPN may have been refunded due to the issuing force not being able to deal with the matter administratively or their policies.

£1000 is the maximum fine at L3 for offence such as this. You must also take into account costs and the victim surcharge.

In all likelihood, the penalty will not far exceed that of the fixed penalty notice and I would expect somewhere between £100 and £200.

Thanks Bravot. I know I'm guilty that's why I'm not pleading otherwise or trying to get out of it. Thanks for your help!

You're welcome. good luck and let us know how you get on.

Today I have a letter from the DVLA asking for my license and a court order to be given 3 points on my license. I don't have a license as I am international. This was written in the police report and documented that a skeleton profile would be made so when I switch over to a British license the 3 points would automatically apply. Why are they now assuming I have a British license? What do I do?

A few questions:

Was the letter from the DVLA or court?

Where was your licence issued?

Have you ever applied for a provisional licence here?

Both. One from court saying I have 3 points. Another from DVLA asking for license.

USA

no

Sorry, missed one out - how long have you been driving here?

You need to write to the DVLA and explain the situation, again. It's a bit much expecting them to read through all the paperwork

Been driving here for 6 months. 1 when offense occurred. Do I write to DVLA or court or both? I still haven't paid the cheque they sent me in and the letter said nothing about a fine. Should I expect a fine letter next or would this have been all in one?

Just to check: because I checked guilty by post, even after paying the fixed penalty and having it returned, have I now been criminally convicted and have to declare this? I know I can kiss my british naturalization application goodbye now...

I would have expected the letter from the court to outline the conviction detailing the fine, points etc.

You will have to declare it but it's a non-recordable offence and relatively minor.

The letter from the court just says "the court has ordered that your driving license be endorsed with the penalty points stated below (3)". No fine, no other details.

Hmm most strange. I would write to both the DVLA and the court explaining that you are a foreign license holder and to confirm the penalty.

I wrote to the DVLA and they said I need to submit my foreign license so they can create the record.

Does this now mean I have been criminally convicted in court rather than by FPN (even though I paid this, they accepted, refunded and I still have their cheque?). Makes a huge difference apparently to a future british passport application

Yes, you have been convicted in a criminal court.

This is unfair. What type of lawyer do I need to contact? I was given and paid for FPN. Getting "convicted" means I am ineligible for british passport now.

I'm afraid that it's far from unfair. A Fixed Penalty Notice is a conditional offer and may be withdrawn or varied based on circumstances and suitability.

You are well within your rights to contact a lawyer but I'm afraid that it's a tad late in the game and if you really wished to appeal it would go nowhere.

I'm afraid that it's far from unfair. A Fixed Penalty Notice is a conditional offer and may be withdrawn or varied based on circumstances and suitability.

 

 

You are well within your rights to contact a lawyer but I'm afraid that it's a tad late in the game and if you really wished to appeal it would go nowhere.

Very little chance of a "lawyer" getting any where with this, in cases involving foreign licence holder it is decided that an offence is best dealt with by magistrates who can fine or disqualify the offender.

Magistrates didn't fine me.

Two people both get a FPN for the same offence on the same day. Both pay their FPN. One mysteriously gets summoned to court and ends up with a criminal record. The other doesn't and has no criminal record. Tell me that's fair.

New legislation was put into place in 2011-2012 to enable foreign drivers to get a FPN and not have to be dealt with with the court. Therefore there is no reason why my case had to be summoned and I had to be given a "criminal record" when hundreds of other people who have committed the same offence don't. It unjust.

This doesn't state anywhere that driving using a mobile is a criminal offence: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/legal-aid/eligibility/list-of-criminal-offences.pdf

Please can I see government documents stating otherwise?

This doesn't state anywhere that driving using a mobile is a criminal offence: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/legal-aid/eligibility/list-of-criminal-offences.pdf

 

Please can I see government documents stating otherwise?

What do you mean? I have no idea how old that list is, it does not contain "Road Traffic Act(s) " and other motoring offences, this does not mean that they don't exist.

BTW there are plenty of sites listing the UK driving offences, the identifying codes and penalties.

So check them.

It does contain specific Road Traffic Act violations. I can find no list otherwise that states it's a criminal offence. It's come off a government website, can't think it's years old!

This doesn't state anywhere that driving using a mobile is a criminal offence: http://www.justice.gov.uk/downloads/legal-aid/eligibility/list-of-criminal-offences.pdf

 

Please can I see government documents stating otherwise?

That link doesn't come close to listing all offences - hundreds are created every year (link).

The offence is created by Road Traffic Act Section 41D

A person who contravenes or fails to comply with a construction and use requirement... as to not driving or supervising the driving of a motor vehicle while using a hand-held mobile telephone... is guilty of an offence.

Until recently minor motoring offences were generally disregarded as far as citizenship applications were concerned, but the latest version of the guidelines seem to have tightened things up (page 18)

We may disregard a single non-custodial sentence, providing it did not occur in the final 12 months of the applicant’s residential qualifying period, if there are strong countervailing factors which suggest the person is of good character in all other regards and the decision to refuse would be disproportionate. Offences involving dishonesty (e.g. theft), violence or sexual offences or drugs would not be disregarded. Drink-driving offences, driving while uninsured or disqualified or driving whilst using a mobile phone would not be disregarded either.