hi everyone

HELP NEEDED!

a month ago i got dimissed for dishonesty from boots ( i was completely honest with them)

recently i received a letter from RLP for intended civil recovering,

they told me to be patient and wait for the second letter to arrive

which will state how much i would have to pay

thanks in advance

Hello and welcome to CAG. I expect the forum guys will be along later, they may have some questions for you in order to advise fully.

Dealing with RLP is more complicated if you were an employee. Were the police involved at all?

My best, HB

hi honeybee 13

no the police wasnt involved

Hi fokruzzaman

Welcome to CAG

Don't speak to RLP over the phone. You really need to provide the full story, how the events unfolded. As Honeybee states your situation is different in that you were an employee.

full story...

..i was serving a customer on tills,

receipt printed out but the customer didnt want the receipt,

another customer needed my help on shop floor so i rushed off tills with previous customers receipt in my hand,

i was meant to bin that receipt but it had a customer order number i wrote down

which i had to go downstairs to stockroom

i accidentally put that receipt in my pocket as my hands were full..

.boots operates a advantage card scheme where you collect 4 points for every £1 you spend..

.i had a few receipts in my pocket which i wanted to add points on

which i shopped a few days ago at boots and the customer receipt was in that pile which i didnt know,

carried out the investigation it came up on the system

(it matches the barcode to my advantage card number)

had proof on paper but i told them it was accidental but

treat that to equivalent to money and company loss,

i admitted i did add points but i didnt intend to add the customers points as i thought i binned it.

accused me of stealing hard money (our store had a high discrepancies) which i denied on 3 occasions....

Loyalty points usually have a value of 0.00001 of a penny, or similar, so that is what Boots' loss is.

Potentially one of the greatest "thefts" ever reported on the forum.

But very sad fokr if this alone should have cost you your job. Have you appealed?

This sort of thing is almost always considered gross misconduct because it's seen as dishonesty, even though in this case it appears to have been an honest mistake.

There was a similar case here a few months back, in which a shop worker was sacked in similar circumstances.

The civil recovery aspect is always, tiresomely, the same; they will try to make out that the retailer's overheads are losses. I think that in some of these cases the retailer involves RLP pour encourager les autres, rather than because they are bothered about a fraction of a penny's worth of loyalty points. That is why I think that court action tends to be more common in cases of employee theft than shoplifters, but saying that the numbers are still infinitesimal compared to the number of offences - and of the court cases, there is usually either a conviction or an admission of guilt, and on top of that the cases are default judgments.

In this case, the loss is tiny, it's more likely than not an honest mistake, there was no police involvement so it's just an allegation, and the OP has come here.

What all this means, of course, is that this case is likely to go the way of all that come to CAG - with their target paying nothing.

I have appealed and failed

So what is my is my next course of action??? I am still waiting for a 2nd letter stating all costs....1 thing I forgot to mention is the customer loyalty points was worth £2.14

Hello again.

Could you type up RLP's first letter please, or scan it for us? Make sure to leave out any personal information.

HB

Hi

There seems to be a lot of site team input her so I apologise for butting in.

Your letter needs converting to a pdf so that we can see everything on it except your personal details which you should cover up.

What I would ask is, were any staff diverted from their usual duty? If you were seen by management and no other staff then that would be a no.

If, say, a cashier was assisting the other staff when he/she should have been on the till then the answer would be yes.

Let's make this absolutely clear, if Boots were to sue you, they could ONLY claim the losses they have suffered (so far £2.14) but in actual fact they have lost nothing as the points would have been removed and you would likely have lost your legit points as well so they would likely be the winner here.

RLP can do nothing to you apart from send you some pretty scary letters purporting to be legal demands for payment. They are NOTHING OF THE SORT! These are spurious demand for some fictitious sum. They will send ever increasin demands for payment with the threats of court and 'civil procedure rules'.

I would be sending a one liner. "Any liability to you or any company you represent is denied." Ignore everything after that, including the ones from their tame debt collector

hi guys

sorry about this, i have changed the file to .PDF

Did you agree in writing that your employer could pass your personal details on to RLP?

A complaint to the Head Office should be the first move and then a complaint to the ICO

i doubt they will pass my information on to them, many thanks for your advice

They already have, that's why your receiving letters from RLP.

i doubt they will pass my information on to them, many thanks for your advice

Completely agree - this notice is the one normally given at the time of apprehension and by implication (and a signature) you would normally agree to the sharing of your personal information. In this case you have been sent the letter after the fact, so it is possible that the employer has unlawfully shared your details with RLP without your permission.

The answer may be in your contract of employment or company handbook - if it states that in such circumstances your information may be passed on, then you would be deemed to have agreed, however if not, then there may well be a breach of the DPA, as RLP are most certainly not a part of the criminal justice system.

Also interesting that RLP seem to have removed the potentially unlawful statement on their notices regarding the sharing of information for the purpose of employment screening!

Typical RLP rubbish. We all make mistakes in life, sometimes those mistakes are contrary to the law, hence why we have a criminal justice system. The police were not involved, therefore your actions in my view would not be considered criminal. Learn from it and move onwards with your life, don't worry about the RLP parasites.

1. RLP can do absolutely nothing to you, they can not take legal action as they are merely acting on behalf of Boots as a third party, and have absolutely no rights to any alleged debt in which they can pursue through the courts.

2. Boots would have to demonstrate in the county court system that some form of loss has been incurred, financial or otherwise. Loyalty card points have basically no monetary value. Sure, you could be considered as being in breach of a contractual term documented in your contract of employment, but boots have taken the decision to terminate your contract, and that's all.

3. Be ready to receive an array of letters threatening everything but doing nothing. Letters mentioning the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct (Civil Procedure Rules 1998), which isn't applicable to RLP as they're not a recognised law firm acting for Boots in a legal capacity (there is no means for negotiation or Pre-Action correspondence as RLP have no capacity to issue proceedings), merely a third party trying to cash cow you for as much money as possible.

4. Take the advice of others here which is either to send a one line letter stating; "I deny any liability to your company, and will not be entering into any further correspondence". Don't enter into letter tennis, just let them send you the usual rubbish they come up with.

If you feel intimidated by any letters, and need any advice, just drop a comment in this thread with a scan of the letter, we're all here to help.

thank you for all your advice guys, still waiting on the second letter to arrive then i will send a one line letter and see how it goes from there

This sort of thing is almost always considered gross misconduct because it's seen as dishonesty, even though in this case it appears to have been an honest mistake.

 

There was a similar case here a few months back, in which a shop worker was sacked in similar circumstances.

 

The civil recovery aspect is always, tiresomely, the same; they will try to make out that the retailer's overheads are losses. I think that in some of these cases the retailer involves RLP pour encourager les autres, rather than because they are bothered about a fraction of a penny's worth of loyalty points. That is why I think that court action tends to be more common in cases of employee theft than shoplifters, but saying that the numbers are still infinitesimal compared to the number of offences - and of the court cases, there is usually either a conviction or an admission of guilt, and on top of that the cases are default judgments.

 

In this case, the loss is tiny, it's more likely than not an honest mistake, there was no police involvement so it's just an allegation, and the OP has come here.

 

What all this means, of course, is that this case is likely to go the way of all that come to CAG - with their target paying nothing.

Is it still the case that only Boots could take court action to recover their losses? Presumably they can't claim staff time for the same reason as they can't with shoplifting?

Presumably Boots won't be involving the police because of the amount involved and the obvious defence

Is it still the case that only Boots could take court action to recover their losses? Presumably they can't claim staff time for the same reason as they can't with shoplifting?

 

Presumably Boots won't be involving the police because of the amount involved and the obvious defence

Yes! Only Boots can claim. They could claim staff time if a different member of Boots staff was significantly diverted from their usual role (eg. cashier) but not foe security costs as that is already factored into the running costs of the store.

As for the police, they will attend if demanded by the store but they tend to deal with minor shoplifting with a caution or FPN. This is what should happen with the majority of shoplifters (who are first timers) with the hardcore shoplifter, court!

Boots do not want to bother with going to court as the costs involved in doing so will be more than they can claim as it would be in the small claims court where costs are fixed. Also, after the fully defended case in 2012 where a retailer was soundly spanked, no other court cases have proceeded.

They seem to think that using RLP will elicit some 'pocket money' for them.

I would even argue that staff time taken for investigations and disciplinary are all part of a managers job description and therefore unclaimable as well.

I would even argue that staff time taken for investigations and disciplinary are all part of a managers job description and therefore unclaimable as well.

Agreed. The store manager oversees all aspects of the store which would include staff theft

This is all hypothetical as no actual loss has occurred and they have taken action that is an alternative to seeking restitution via a small claim for their losses. I dont think for a moment that they will accept a tenner and give you your job back so this is the end of the matter as far as they are concerned but I would still be complaining to the ICO about the misuse of your personal data by Boots/RLP.

Refer you your employment conditions in case you think that they have a right to do what they have done then complain anyway.