Hi

Hope someone can help me with this problem with RSA.

I own three English Bulldogs and have done for 4 years, the first two were bought as a security measure after many years of being told by Family and even the police to get a big dog as they are the best security. Last year for the first time I bred the two girls - prior to this I had not - some puppies went to family & friends and the rest were sold, I have not bred them again and have no plans to.

I was burgled in November 2014, someone came in the back door and stole valuables from the kitchen & adjoining room, they also took my safe which contained jewellery/cash and many treasured photos. I put a claim in with my insurance (More Than) and had two visits from them, the second visit was a Senior Claims Investigator who was employed by Rsa, he took a witness statement which lasted some three hours and everything he could ask was asked - criminal convictions, ccjs, non-disclosure it seemed to go on forever. Today I have received (7 months later) their letter stating that they will not pay the claim because they have termed my home as a business because of the puppies and as such there is an exclusion being attached that a business is not covered if a "sneak-in" theft occurs, which is what it was. I am going to complain to RSA and of course if they don't budge then I will go to the financial ombudsman but I wanted advice first.

I have looked for clarification online about this and can only find that to determine a dog breeding business there has to be 5 litters or more born in a 12 month period and when this number is reached a Breeders Licence must be applied for - this is covered in the "Breeding of Dogs Act 1973" which was amended in the 1999 Act and states that hobby breeders & licensed breeders are not to be classed together and one is only termed as a "Dog Breeding Business" when one reaches the 5 litter or more rule or where a Local Council has had cause to visit the premises because of complaints - none of the above applies to me, my dogs are pets and I only have two females but they have told me that because people came to my house and bought puppies that I am a business. There were no puppies in the house when the incident occurred and the monies in the safe were not from the sale of any puppies but they are telling me that I effectively have operated a business from home because of the two litters and not told them, this is why they are not going to pay - they have gone through my life with a fine tooth comb and looked for reasons as to why they cannot pay and this is the only reason that they can find.

Does this mean that every household that has sold puppies, kittens, rabbits and so on is a business?

I have recently sold collection only items on Ebay & Gumtree which included a Jukebox and other electrical items, the buyers came to my home and paid me money for them - does that make me a electrical business? - last year my partner and I each sold a car from our home (upgrading) and received cash, are we now car dealers?

Please advise as I am angry that they have gone over everything again and again and seemed pretty desperate to find a reason and the one they have chosen seems "flimsy" to me, this is my first dealing with any insurance company and my first claim but wanted to know what rules the ombudsman is likely to follow when he determines if my home is a business or not as this seems to be the sticking point.

BIRLEY66,

Take the ombudsman route,IMO.

Trust me on this one. ...... They will argue "Till the cows come home".

You'ill be playing "letter tennis" for months.

You've done nothing wrong here.

Bring out the Big Guns

Sometimes I wonder if "people" are better off just investing what they would have paid to the insurance co.

Into an ISA.

Depends when the last time was you made a claim ? ???

Edit. Your post : November 2014.......

I hope that's a "typo". ....If not I've lost a year and missed 8 barrels of BEER

RSA were obviously not happy with the claim event, so were trying to find a reason not to pay out.

You should submit a Data Protection Subject Access Request to RSA to get hold of all records regarding the claim. This should be all papers held on file, as well as system records. See what they have got, as it might prove helpful to you.

I would suggest that you pass this to the FOS, as soon as you can. Normally following a complaint Insurers have 8 weeks to resolve before you can go to the FOS. But if you ask for a final response letter before the 8 weeks, you can go to the FOS sooner.

Think you have a good case based on your comments. I have known several people have one or two litters and have never thought it was a business.

Today I have received (7 months later) their letter stating that they will not pay the claim because they have termed my home as a business because of the puppies and as such there is an exclusion being attached that a business is not covered if a "sneak-in" theft occurs, which is what it was.

Gawd blimey, that's got to be one of the most absurd "get out of paying an insurance claim" excuses I've heard to date!!

Having a dog that has a litter of puppies does not mean your running a Business! Regardless if they got pregnant intentionally or not. As your dog could've mated with another without your knowledge. I.E in a back garden/park/field etc...

I've both male & female Bunnies as my pets & as we all know Bunnies can excel at making babies! They are also excellent company as I do not work due to illness.

Yet according to RSA (judging by their response to you) I must therefore be running a business as well.

That's utterly ridiculous!

So I do hope you take UncleBulgaria67 advice & fight this the whole way.

Let us know how you get on, as I'd be interested in knowing.

Hi Guys

Thanks for the prompt replies, please note I was robbed in Nov 2013 and not 2014 as I put. This is my first claim with any insurance company (car or home) and I live in M16 which until recently was the highest crime postcode in the UK so I have been lucky until now - I get people coming onto my property at least once a week, I know this because they constantly leave the side gates open.

They did not like the fact that I had photos of the jewellery and thought that this was suspicious! - the photos were on a old laptop and were taken between 5-7 years ago which I managed to get off the laptop after the event, these were posted to "Photobox" to get hard copies for the insurance and me and the police but they were not happy about this and wanted my laptop - I of course was not willing to give them that, I did however whilst the investigator was in my home print off the Photobox receipt from another computer and gave him that. A couple of weeks later when I rang to see how everything was going he informed me that he had further investigations to make with Photobox - I can only assume that he thought the pictures were taken either just before or even after the event which of course they were not, I thought that these companies could tell when a photo was taken by the means that they have available and they had plenty of copies. I had numbered the pictures to cross reference with the receipts (I had these too - some being over 10 years old) but some pictures that had been taken were just blurs and I saw no point in sending them and just sent the best and clearest images but he was able to tell me that some pictures were missing from the sequence, I immediately showed him the blurred copies to explain this and he still seemed unhappy.

Has the investigator broke the Data Protection by going to Photobox without my permission? - and indeed Photobox. The investigator was employed by RSA and if I did a SAR would his investigations be included? - I am asking this because I read something last year about investigators being charged by the ICO for this and wanted to know if the investigator has broken any rules. He also made further enquiries with the Police but I can only assume that everything checked out there because their letter only states the reason for non-settlement as being the "business use".

Finally my insurance was up for renewal in March 2014 - I did not get a renewal notice just before March as I had done for the past 5 years and no money was taken from my bank account but in April I received a schedule of payments (the premiums had increased by £25.00 per month). The first payment was scheduled to be taken at the end of that month but to-date they have not taken any money nor have they cancelled my insurance so I do not even know if I have been insured these past four months - I have rang them twice about this and told that somebody would ring me back but they haven't. I decided to tackle this issue when they gave me their verdict on the event, they have not renewed or cancelled my insurance so can someone please tell me how to throw this at them too.

One of the things they will have done when looking into your claim was to google your name and / or address and/ or phone number this would bring up any adverts you've placed on gumtree etc.

Have you tried googling your name / number etc and having a good look as this is where they are likely to have formed a lot of their view that your a business from.

Hi

Just googled my name & phone number and the only advert that came up was in April 2014 for the first litter of 3, the second litter came shortly after but so many friends & family wanted Pups that they were taken with no advertising required - glad you raised this because it should work in my favour as the internet only shows one entry of Bulldogs. Incidentally the investigator never asked me how many dogs I own or how many litters I have bred so to come to the conclusion that they have seems wrong.

Anyone got any answers to my Data Protection question? - I am drafting a letter to the insurance to complain and want to cover this too.

Thanks

Yes RSA should give you everything on file for a Data Protection subject access request, including any reports received. Just click on subject access request for a letter, which you can amend to mention any specific info you want.

Hi

I just wanted to update this post - I wrote a letter to More Than & RSA and sent them straight to the Claims Directors, it has taken them just over a week to reply and they have now changed their decision and will settle the claim. They have also apologised and waived the excess fee, it took them over nine months to say no to the claim and just 7 days to change their mind and say yes.

Thank you for the replies and help on this post.

Hi

 

 

I just wanted to update this post - I wrote a letter to More Than & RSA and sent them straight to the Claims Directors, it has taken them just over a week to reply and they have now changed their decision and will settle the claim. They have also apologised and waived the excess fee, it took them over nine months to say no to the claim and just 7 days to change their mind and say yes.

 

 

Thank you for the replies and help on this post.

Glad you resolved it eventually. They were in the wrong and should have realised this earlier.

Hello again.

Well done to you and UB for persisting with this. If you haven't already, you might like to thank UB by adding to his reputation. Click on the star at the bottom left of one of his posts and leave a brief message.

I'll amend your thread title.

HB