Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Firstly, the spreadsheet I used was mindzai's which you can find by looking at his profile page - there should be a link to the spreadsheet there.
Over the years, when I received my statements, along with it came an extra page outlining my monthly charge for the previous month. This was made up of my arranged charge(s) - in my case Royalties (I know, I'm foolish...). On top of this however, there would generally be other charges. If I had had a bad month and gone overdrawn, there would be an arrangement fee added to this charge of £28 (or sometimes more). It would then tell me that the sum would be debited from my bank on a certain date (next month) and come the date of charging, there would be an entry on my statement that read "CHG A/C 12345678" (12345678 being my account number).
Now when I received my duplicate statements having sent an S.A.R - (Subject access request), none of these Breakdown sheets were sent so I was a bit stuck, I knew that some of the amount charged on these charges I could claim back and some of it I couldn't (because the Royalties charge for example, is a service and is therefore unclaimable).
Using my statements as a guide to what level of royalties I had (I have at some stage been on Royalties, Gold and Premium and at the top of each statement it will tell you what type of account it is during that month) I basically deducted the monthly Royalties fee from the CHG A/C charge therefore leaving the amount I could claim back.
When setting up your first statement (for your prelim) ensure you add to this any overdraft interest that you can claim back. DO NOT GET THIS CONFUSED WITH 8% INTEREST YOU ADD TO YOUR CLAIM AT COURT STAGE. Overdraft interest is the interest that is charged to your account on a monthly basis when you are overdrawn. This interest is calculated on any amount that exceeds your interest free overdraft (not your agreed overdraft limit). Because your unlawful charges contribute to your overdraft, the interest that is charged against these charges can be claimed back from stage one.
On the spreadsheet, enter the date the interest was debited, the amount charged, the interest free overdraft amount and the balance of your account at the time of the interest charge and the spreadsheet does the rest. It calculates the difference between your overdraft at the time and your interest free amount to find out how much the interest was charged against. It then finds out what percentage of your overdraft is made up of charges and adds this to the claim.
To explain in layman's terms what the spreadsheet does, if you were £600 overdrawn and had an interest free amount of £100, were charged £50 in charges and were deducted £10 in overdraft interest, the spreadsheet would calculate:
Overdraft £600 minus Interest Free £100 equals £500
Charge amount £50 as percentage of Chargeable overdaft £500 equals 10%
Amount claimable equals 10% of interest charge of £10 equals £1
Royalties interest free amounts are easy to find out, just ring RBS and ask them! The current amounts are (or at least were when I did mine) Basic 100, Gold 250, Premier 500. Anything over these amounts (whether it is an agreed amount or not) is charged interest. The obvious issue here is Royalties charges have changed over time and it is difficult to pinpoint when they have changed. For the sake of keeping things simple, I didn't bother finding out, just used the current levels and said so in my prelim - the bank can always amend if they want to (which I doubt they will).
Finally, you can find a list of all charges and their amounts going back as far as 1993 here. This can give you an idea of what charges can be reclaimed and how much they were at the time of the charge you are reviewing. An extremely useful post!!
Had a couple of questions regarding this over pm, thought I would post a couple of them as they may be of use also.....
Did the same royalties charges apply in the Years 2000 - 2004?
Can't say for sure, but I added to the letter that I was using the current charges at time of writing to them. Note, I believe some ppl in RBS forum are attempting to obtain a list of historical royalties charges.
CHG to 06JUL A/C £3.00 CHG to 04AUG A/C £3.00 what do you think these are for?
The most likely thing is Loanguard. If you had an overdraft and were somehow advised to take this out then you got caught! This is basically payment protection of your overdraft, is arranged and is therefore unclaimable.
It does sound like a good idea and something I think would be useful and helpful to the site because amounts have changed over the course of time. I hope you do something with amounts terms what the charge has been for and how it has changed. I hope others can use it as a point of reference.
You do need a Google account to use my spreadsheets. I kinda love Google. I use Google calendar and mail and word documents and spreadsheets - so far. Google spreadsheets can be downloaded into Excel, Open office, etc. If you don't want a Google account to obtain mine, Excel versions are available from Blueskies or WifeandI.
Since I've recently had success with my claim, thought I'd pull something together mainly for the use of any newcomers as I took a lot of time sorting out my bank charges with RBS purely down to some of the strange charges they make (and also wanting to claim as much as possible ).
Over the years, when I received my statements, along with it came an extra statement outlining my monthly charge for the previous month. This was made up of my arranged charge(s) - in my case Royalties (I know, I'm foolish...). On top of this however, there would generally be an extra charge. If I had had a bad month and gone overdrawn or whatever, I would on numerous occasions have an arrangement fee added to this charge of £28 (or sometimes more). It would then tell me that the sum would be debited from my bank next month and come the date of charging, an entry saying "CHG A/C xxx" (xxx being my account number).
Now when I received my duplicate statements having sent a Data Protection Act request, none of these Breakdown sheets were sent so I was a bit stuck, I knew that some of the amount charged on these CHG A/C charges I could claim back and some of it I couldn't. I don't know whether this has been documented previously but I can't find it, so to explain what I did.......
Firstly, I rang my bank and asked for a leaflet on current interest rates and charges. This gave me a list of the possible arranged charges that could be placed on my account. Using my statements as a guide to what level of royalties I had (I have at some stage being on Royalties, Gold and Premium and on each statement it will tell you what type of account it is for that month) I added a few columns to the calculator spreadsheet where I could enter how much of the account fee for that month was an arranged fee and therefore deducting it from my claim.
I have recently been offered full settlement of my claim so have been successful in using this to claim back my charges in full. I think the key to this is ensuring you cover off all arranged charges on your account and also stating somewhere (either on your calculation sheet or on your letter to the bank) what you have done and also that you are using the charges they are using at present. Hope this is of use to someone, it added an extra £785 to my claim on top of the unpaids and overdraft charges.
I have also saved my claim spreadsheet for the benefit of anyone who wants to see what I'm talking about. I've saved it on Google Spreadsheets here, hopefully I've done this right. If anyone doesn't have a google account and wishes to view this spreadsheet, PM me your email address and I will pass it on to you. Please bear in mind, I set this sheet up as an example of how to amend the main template. My copy doesn't include any formulas to calculate interest, totals etc so be warned. I will attempt to set up a proper template in the next few days.
Good luck!
Had a couple of questions regarding this over pm, thought I would post a couple of them as they may be of use also.....
Probably, can't say for sure, but I added to the letter that I was using the current charges at time of writing to them.
The most likely thing is Loanguard. If you had an overdraft and were somehow conned in to taking this out then you got caught! This is basically payment protection of your overdraft, is arranged and is therefore unclaimable.
Hi im on the first stage i have printed the first template of to ask for my statements, like you my claim is also with the RBS. Is there anymore pointers that you can give me with dealing with this bank.
Just keep at it! If you want some guidance, read through my two cases with RBS - they will be in my sig. Start your own post (Qmart vs RBS) and post all your progress so others can keep an eye on what you are doing and help out.
Good luck.
If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know
Does anyone know if a referral charge can be claimed back. This to me sounds quite borderline service/charge. It's where they agree to pay cheques, dds etc even if you are over your limit. Someone at the bank has just told me that they charge £38 for refusing payment but £30 referral charge. Is anyone familiar with these charges?
That will do for me! Am I right in thinking that if this is wrong, it won't make the case default or whatever the right lingo is, it will just mean the court won't award them (if it got that far - it's £5k plus interest so you never know).
Hi T4FF.
I would be most gratefull if you could send me a copy of your claim spreadsheet.I am about to enter the puzzle of bank charges!!!!!and any help in working out what i may claim back would br very well recieved.
Thanks in advance.
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Hi T4FF.
I would be most gratefull if you could send me a copy of your claim spreadsheet.I am about to enter the puzzle of bank charges!!!!!and any help in working out what i may claim back would br very well recieved.
Thanks in advance.
Just sent it to you. Will be me last bit of action for a few days I'm afraid. I'm just about to leave work. My internet connection at home has been activated but I haven't received my modem yet so I can only log on here in work
If my post has been useful, tip my scales and let me know
Thanks very much for posting about your RBS claim. I too am with the RBS and about to start a claim. Luckily, I'm quite organised and have most of my Bank statements form over the past few years, but do you recommend writing to RBS customer services and asking for all charges to be sent to me solely on a spreadsheet? That way i'm sure its easier to work out any interest which they have accrued on top of it. I have really one main question re: all of this. Now, I can appreciate that the reason why people are claiming is because the charges that are in force by the banks are clearly unjustified, and I refer to the actual amount they charge, not the reason. But, surely if you go over your agreed overdraft the bank has a right to charge you? Isnt this really just down to bad account management on our part? We all know the RBS charge a referral of £28 when you exceed your overdraft ( per transaction!) so just to understand and get my head round this so I'm fully aware, are they NOT allowed to do this? On numerous occasions, typical of a bank holiday for instance, my mortgages have come out early ( always a day or 2 early and never later may I add ) my account has gone overdrawn and ANY other direct debits / maestro transactions that go through within this time period are all chargeable and this is very very frustrating. I dread to think how much I have been charged over the last 10 years or so. Any help clearing this out would be appreciated.
Thanks again very very much, and look forward to your reply.
I'm sure that as you read around the threads, you wil find out that not only SHOULD they not be charging the amounts they do, but it is UNLAWFUL of them to do so. Yes I agree that it's often our own fault we sometimes incur charges. But they are not allowed to penalise you for it by hitting you with unfair charges. They are only allowed to recover what it basically costs them to administer the transaction, whatever it happens to be. And no way does it cost them 28 quid (stupid American keyboard has no quid sign) and upwards every time you have a DD bounce, or go over your OD limit.
Take your time, learn as much as you can, and ask for help if you need it. We're all here in the same boat, and just about all of us thought the same as you at one point... it's our fault, so they are allowed to do it. Well, they're not.
Thanks for the reply buddy. Will keep all posted on my progress.
I think writing to the Bank and requesting a charges statement is definitely the first step even tho I have statements, then at least I can compare them.
Is there any claim templates on here which I can view? I want to draft it in my own words but would be great to see what other successful claimants used.
A bit of help for you with RBoS charges
), none of these Breakdown
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Re: A bit of help for you with RBoS charges
Originally Posted by natweststaffmember
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Re: A bit of help for you with RBoS charges
