I worked for a uk based small security company for two months and did'nt get any pay!

I had a verbal contract

I filled in all printed / headed logbook entries

submitted all my paperwork ID etc p45 NInb etc.( I also photographed every logbook entry).no timesheets

when I asked why I had'nt been paid, was led along to be told I needed 'vetting' for the job

and could'nt be paid until I had clearance

( dbs check credit employment etc)

Yes I know this is rubbish and 'unlawful'

I checked with hmrc and sia (governing body)security.

I also checked :dbs had no requests for my crb and x employers were never approached.

I also found out that the same business has done a similar thing to at least 3 other workers within the last 12 months,

you dont get paid after the 1st months work.

..you complain.

..the guy argues with you ..

.results in you leaving the job somewhat fedup

...he employs another sia 'muppet'(his words not mine).

you're then left to attempt to claim back cash through county court

...noone is given a contract / payslip.

..I feel this is a CON!

I have done all letters / court papers etc.but would like advice from those in similar situation.

SURELY THIS COMPANY CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO GET AWAY WITH IT!

It seems that everyother person in security knows someone whos been ripped off by SIMILAR licensed conmen somewhere around the uk.any thoughts please!!!!

Report them. And consider legal action for money you are owed. The reason he keeps doing this is because none of the above has been done yet.

County court claim?

 

Report them. And consider legal action for money you are owed. The reason he

keeps doing this is because none of the above has been done yet.

Please follow this advice. HMRC are committed to dealing with this sort of thing under minimum wage rules and they do react though they may not seem to immediately. They can't do anything if nobody lets them know it's happening.

Thanks to all for a quick response to my thread

I promise to keep all updated and will hopefully in due course be able to offer constructive advice to others based on my experience

it really does make a difference when people are bothered to reply.

THANKYOU

i rang hmrc and they told me they can investigate and recover the money at NMW

the SIA seem to drag their heels ....with these complaints...any ideas as to why?

I will also consider direct action by picket outside his buisiness and clients premises...

any thoughts on this?

cheers to all will post back soon regards mike.

I wouldnt picket outside his business or clients premises. Youd find yourself with a possible criminal record. Stick to official channels of getting this sorted.

Write to him by recorded delivery giving him 7 days to pay the amount owed and say that at the end of 7 days you will issue a court claim without further notice.

https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome

Do it now, not next week or next month, now.

If you are owed more than £700 then you can get a HCEO to collect the money if payment isnt fothcoming and a CCJ is given. They have powers of entry onto business premises and that can include a separate office at home.

Thanks for update re hceo this will I feel be a possible way to get my cash back.

i've submitted papers and they have been served but as it's a residential address and a regisitered business address not too confident...I have issued the writ in the individual's name so does that mean they could seize assets as vehicles in his name parked on an open driveway on the property.???....I know I can damage the business by just reporting the facts to his customers/sia/hmrc etc.but it still dose'nt get my hard earned cash back..

wish the uk would wake up to this and criminalise certain practices...he's done this to lots of people over the past few years...apparantley...

the sia seem only interested in defaults to their own regulations.....acas seem powerless unless you pay the 500 odd quid for tribunal....I went through the concilliation process with them to be told I could'nt submit the information to county court'due to it being confidential'...waste of time.hmrc seem to be the best bet....so much for uk justice and worker's rights!!!!hey thanks for any input...will kee:|p u all posted.

Do you have contacts with the previous people that have been used in this manner.

A tribunal case on its own is a bit daunting for one person for a smallish amount.

Is there scope for bringing a collective claim?

My only worry is that the company itself might "disappear" and reappear in another form.

This sort of behavior needs to be stamped out. Wonder if any publicity would also help your case.

In order to use HCEOs you would first need to get a CCJ. You get a CCJ by issuing a county court claim through the 'money claim online' service. This is cheaper than going through the Employment Tribunal.

ACAS are powerless because they are supposed to be a neutral body. They don't make decisions or force anyone to do anything.

As said, to reiterate the first step is letter before action giving at least 7 days notice and then a civil claim for money owed under an agreement via the county court small claims procedure. Cost you baout £50 for the amount you are owed and that is added to the total when you obtain judgement.

Thanks to last few posts very supportive guys, many cheers indeed,

one of the things about this kind of thing is how hopeless,stupid and amazed I feel re: this kind of idiot getting to owe me this amount of money! ..I really feel for people in this situation now I understand...how it feels! I told him I could face eviction if I did'nt keep up my rent etc...I owed two monhs so took a job at 60 hrs a week to repay it, which I have, having no mot or tax on my car...I'm no ok again with this...I had a terrible loss of my father to deal with at the same time...I'm a resiliant person who will never let this matter go and fully intend to discredit/his buisness etc.by reporting these facts to his clients/hmrc/sia etc. but still want /need the money back.!

how can the uk goverment sit back and lapse rules /regs on this kind of behaviour...let hammer ordinary working people for not paying their council tax etc.!!!!I thought the law said that to remove something that it your's with a view to depriving you of it permanently

is the definenition of 'theft', in the usa they treat this v seriously...

yes I agree acas are useless the ccj and hceo / sheriffs office hopefully can help.

many thanks will keep u all posted re results.

UPDATE:

just had court papers back the guy admitted liability for the whole debt,

hes also listed his outgoing expenses....(not a great deal of outgoing! no debts etc...but has offered a repayment of 350 per month.

given he has had 5 months to pay me anything..and has'nt and also failed to make any offers up to now...I don't trust him atall!!!!

I will submit for judgement and refuse the offer...what happens now? as he has a great deal more income than he admits to and several expensive vehicles parked on an open driveway

should I wait for a judgement in order to up it toa high court writ and enforce sheriff action through hceo.?

Or do I really have to wait a year to be drip fed my wages....I worked xmas day boxing day and often for 14 hr shifts..is there no way of legally stopping these

conmen?thoughts please?///

The good news here is that hes admitted liability for the whole debt. I would personlly refuse the monthly offer and wait for judgement and then straight to Hceo if that's possible.

If like you say he has several vehicles they will be perfect for the Hceo to take or force him to get the funds together to pay you and them.

Sure others will be along with how Hceo work and when you can get them involved, I think it was cheap too at only £60 charge.

George

Thanks George,

Glad you think I should go down the HCEO route,

I agree I will refuse offer and await judgement,

This idiot has a long proven record on non payment to staff,

Should I still report him to the HMRC ( would this cloud the case) or should I wait for a ccj to be granted?

In his admission he failed to account for an annual income (self employed) how will any judgement be made re: any repayment amounts etc.

He did admit to being owed money by client's/ and is waiting for a contractor to pay him over 6,000 quid, would this have any effect on how the court awards payment?

any thoughts on how to prepare any further evidence to back up my claim for a quick full payment.....hceo?again.....many thanks for all input.mike.

Normally what happens is the court staff will set a repayment schedule and you can ask for a hearing if you disagree. If a repayment schedule is set you would not be able to use HCEOs unless he was late in making payments.

i've looked on line on mcol i can ask for full payment which i would like by giving a further 14 days for payment,to be made in full.(this i think is more than reasonable).

the paper admission form states that if i wish to dispute the method of offer of repayments i can do so in writing on the back of a n225 i can print off and send to the court with the n9a

admision sheet,

however if i do this online it dose'nt give me an option to state why i don't wish to accept

repayments,

do I send the forms off completed as well as do the judgement online?

a bit confused on this ..maybe i should call mcol tomorrow.and ask.

thanks for input.

Then ask for full payment. It is unlikely a court will think that you have been unreasonable in asking for that but when you get judgement there may be a payment order anyway. If he defaults then you can ask for a full repayment and then uswe the bailiffs to collect on the balance. These people usually know how to play the system so dont be kind to them.

Thanks for info,

yes I have sent back the appropriate forms back to county court centre and asked for immediate full payment

I must say though getting through to the helpline for mcol is a joke.it took forever.

can anyone shed any light on what hmrc etc call 'unlawfull' with regards to withholding wages..it dosen't seem to be a criminal offence...what's the difference between them?

thanks to all again will keep updates re situation.

Thanks for info,

yes I have sent back the appropriate forms back to county court centre and asked for immediate full payment

I must say though getting through to the helpline for mcol is a joke.it took forever.

can anyone shed any light on what hmrc etc call 'unlawfull' with regards to withholding wages..it dosen't seem to be a criminal offence...what's the difference between them?

thanks to all again will keep updates re situation.

If he just withheld your pay that would be unlawful. If he intended to deprive you of it permanently that would be theft so a criminal offence and illegal.

 

Should I still report him to the HMRC ( would this cloud the case) or should

I wait for a ccj to be granted?

I have a family member who has just gone through this and they have run in parallel with neither affecting the other. In our case she got default judgement because the employer didn't bother to respond to the initial claim and they then applied for set aside. The set aside hearing was last week and they didn't bother to attend so judgement stands - it would have done so anyway as the evidence was pretty conclusive. Will she get her money? I don't know. We still consider it worthwhile working with HMRC to try and stamp out such outrageous behaviour among employers.

thanks for heads up high tail,

YES time has come to take the gloves off!

i sent this clown a personal letter very direc:-xt and to the point telling him what i thought of him.anyway got a response after threatening to send written complaints to hmrc sia and his main clients...more bsxxxt! more offers to pay in the future etc.

i told him i've had enough now and intend to throw everything at him..guess what a mate of mine who knows another chap who hes not paided again only last week! god he's still at it.!hes ripped him off for 1500 quid in wages.

is there no stopping this conman?is this really legal?

to recap you do a months security work on a site..when you don't get paid...you ask, kick up a fuss etc..he makes some bull excuse argues with you you leave and hey presto! he's caught another one! you're then left to try and recover the cash...

i know i'm now one of 5 in the last 10 months..only 1 person got their cash by....threatening him with violence!!!!any legal advice re criminallity in this area?cheers.

If u have a got a ccj in your favour contact your local paper and sell them the story

Your remedy is very simple. It is to bring a claim in the county court for unpaid wages. For a simple case like this it is actually not difficult, so you might as well get on and do it. Why don't you search for the 'money claim online' website and have a look around.

Answering your question about the criminality of threatening violence, obviously that is not legal and could get you in hot water with the plod.