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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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20 year claim limit in Scotland


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Update.......

Phone the sheriff's clerk today(Tuesday) and the HBOS has still not submitted a defense.

I'm off to court tomorrow to see what happens.

I'll post an update tomorrow.......

Advice given is purely my opinion, and is not based on any legal training.

BOS Credit Card...........................Hearing Date 07/02/07

Full Settlement..............................13/02/07

BOS Bank Account .........................total charges £8,655.92

1st offer..............................................£1620.00 01/12/06 Rejected

2nd offer.............................................£3255.00 03/01/07 Rejected

Summary Action victory.................£1499.02 22/03/07

Full and Final offer............................£7,200 19/04/07

Pict...............

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Good luck Pict.

 

To which pictish tribe do you belong? ;-)

Vital spark v Lloyds Tsb

2nd November 2006: 1st letter, requesting back statements, hand delivered to lloyds TSB: got receipt.

I have received the information on my accounts going back 6 (six) years but not going back to the begining of my hsitory with the bank, as I requested.

Think I'd best send a letter suggesting they send the lot and informing them that I have already paid the £10 for such information.

Mairi's awaiting my details so that she can help me work out the interest due on the charges taken.

 

Personal: growing and changing while ever remaining the same. Get to know me and tell me what I'm like coz I can't figure me out.

 

Quote: If you can't beat them, confuse them.

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Well, having read all the arguments here, I'll run them by my solicitor to see what he says. If he is unhappy, then I think I'll have to forget going after the charges pre-5 years ago. If I can't convince him, I don't think I have a cat in hells chance of convincing a judge.

 

I'm having to go ordinary cause, so I don't really have much choice about using a solicitor. But to be honest, it does make me feel more secure being in professional hands.

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Hmmm, I too am feeling shakey about this 20 year claim. I'll be extremely glad when Robertxc comes back on to clarify the situation.

 

Didn't Mackie win her/his case on the "20 year claim" basis? Somebody did and stated that they'd just bluffed it.

 

Can anyone clarify the situation, PLLLLEASE?

Vital spark v Lloyds Tsb

2nd November 2006: 1st letter, requesting back statements, hand delivered to lloyds TSB: got receipt.

I have received the information on my accounts going back 6 (six) years but not going back to the begining of my hsitory with the bank, as I requested.

Think I'd best send a letter suggesting they send the lot and informing them that I have already paid the £10 for such information.

Mairi's awaiting my details so that she can help me work out the interest due on the charges taken.

 

Personal: growing and changing while ever remaining the same. Get to know me and tell me what I'm like coz I can't figure me out.

 

Quote: If you can't beat them, confuse them.

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Thinking of you today, Pict. Will be there with you in spirit as will, I am sure most others on this board.

Vital spark v Lloyds Tsb

2nd November 2006: 1st letter, requesting back statements, hand delivered to lloyds TSB: got receipt.

I have received the information on my accounts going back 6 (six) years but not going back to the begining of my hsitory with the bank, as I requested.

Think I'd best send a letter suggesting they send the lot and informing them that I have already paid the £10 for such information.

Mairi's awaiting my details so that she can help me work out the interest due on the charges taken.

 

Personal: growing and changing while ever remaining the same. Get to know me and tell me what I'm like coz I can't figure me out.

 

Quote: If you can't beat them, confuse them.

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Seahorse,

 

The Bank have not breached their contract with the customer. The contract provides an express term which states that the Bank will apply a charge of a certain amount (changes in these amounts communicated to customers periodically in the leaflets which they send with your statements but few take notice off because the print is too small and lengthy) on the customer's default. When the customer defaults, the Bank apply the charge. The Bank is not in breach, on the contrary it is acting strictly in accordance with the contract.

 

The area of law we are dealing with is not contract, but unjustified enrichment. This is related to, but distinct from contract and has separate rules and consequences.

 

But it is ME who has broken the contract by bouncing a cheque, going overdrawn or whatever. And I have only now become aware of the unlawful penalties that have been applied for doing so. So surely contract law still applies?

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Just returned from court.

We have been granted a decree and will receive the extract on the 22nd March.:)

Thanks to everyone who has helped me get through this. Lets hope nothing else happens and they pay up.

Advice given is purely my opinion, and is not based on any legal training.

BOS Credit Card...........................Hearing Date 07/02/07

Full Settlement..............................13/02/07

BOS Bank Account .........................total charges £8,655.92

1st offer..............................................£1620.00 01/12/06 Rejected

2nd offer.............................................£3255.00 03/01/07 Rejected

Summary Action victory.................£1499.02 22/03/07

Full and Final offer............................£7,200 19/04/07

Pict...............

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Just to update everyone, I've decided to seek a definitive (or as definitive as it gets) opinion on the limitation rules. This is going to take a couple of days.

Robertxc v. Abbey - £3300 Settled in full

Robertxc v. Clydesdale - £750 Settled in full

Nationwide v. Robertxc - £2000 overdraft wiped out, Default removed by order of the sheriff

Robertxc v. Style Card - Default removed by order of the sheriff

Robertxc v. Abbey (1) - Data Protection Act action. £750 compensation

Robertxc v. Abbey (2) - Data Protection Act action. £2000 compensation, default removed

 

The opinions on this post are those of Robertxc and not necessarily the opinions of the group and do not constitute sound legal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice.

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Looking forward to clarification on this, Robert,

Vital spark v Lloyds Tsb

2nd November 2006: 1st letter, requesting back statements, hand delivered to lloyds TSB: got receipt.

I have received the information on my accounts going back 6 (six) years but not going back to the begining of my hsitory with the bank, as I requested.

Think I'd best send a letter suggesting they send the lot and informing them that I have already paid the £10 for such information.

Mairi's awaiting my details so that she can help me work out the interest due on the charges taken.

 

Personal: growing and changing while ever remaining the same. Get to know me and tell me what I'm like coz I can't figure me out.

 

Quote: If you can't beat them, confuse them.

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I've been haring round, trying to find the equivalent section of the Prescription and limitation act (Scotland) 1973 (as amended) to S.32 of the Limitation Act 1980 all night.

 

Am I correct in thinking it is Section 11(3) as outlined in this case report?

 

"Prescription"

 

There are exceptions to this rule that apply in similar terms to the law in England and Wales. For example, Section 11(3) of the Act provides that where the creditor was not aware, and could not have with reasonable diligence been aware, that loss, injury or damage had occurred, the starting date for the running of time shall be the date when "the creditor first became, or could with reasonable diligence have become, so aware".

 

From paragraph 4.

18/11/2006 Recieved Statements from Barclays.

20/11/2006 Sent Prelim for return of £575.

27/11/2006 Received offer of £290.

4/12/2006 Sent LBA.

8/1/2007 Filed Small Claim at court.

12/02/2007 Full settlemant from Barclay's.

12/02/2007 LBA sent to Mint.

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Just to let everyone know, there is now a copy of the Prescription & Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973 available in th statutes forum, which is accessed from the forum home page.

Robertxc v. Abbey - £3300 Settled in full

Robertxc v. Clydesdale - £750 Settled in full

Nationwide v. Robertxc - £2000 overdraft wiped out, Default removed by order of the sheriff

Robertxc v. Style Card - Default removed by order of the sheriff

Robertxc v. Abbey (1) - Data Protection Act action. £750 compensation

Robertxc v. Abbey (2) - Data Protection Act action. £2000 compensation, default removed

 

The opinions on this post are those of Robertxc and not necessarily the opinions of the group and do not constitute sound legal advice. You are advised to seek professional legal advice.

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Excellent stuff, many thanks Robert. So it's S.6(4)(a) then?

18/11/2006 Recieved Statements from Barclays.

20/11/2006 Sent Prelim for return of £575.

27/11/2006 Received offer of £290.

4/12/2006 Sent LBA.

8/1/2007 Filed Small Claim at court.

12/02/2007 Full settlemant from Barclay's.

12/02/2007 LBA sent to Mint.

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Thank you Robert. Will check it out.

 

Got the Vic tomorrow am so maybe tomorrow afternoon. :-)

Vital spark v Lloyds Tsb

2nd November 2006: 1st letter, requesting back statements, hand delivered to lloyds TSB: got receipt.

I have received the information on my accounts going back 6 (six) years but not going back to the begining of my hsitory with the bank, as I requested.

Think I'd best send a letter suggesting they send the lot and informing them that I have already paid the £10 for such information.

Mairi's awaiting my details so that she can help me work out the interest due on the charges taken.

 

Personal: growing and changing while ever remaining the same. Get to know me and tell me what I'm like coz I can't figure me out.

 

Quote: If you can't beat them, confuse them.

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Seahorse,

 

Your breach of contract is the trigger for the imposition of the charges. As a pursuer seeking return of these sums, you have to have a legal basis. You cannot cite your own wrongdoing as a justification for receiving a benefit (generally, the law does not allow a person to profit from their own wrongdoing).

 

The legal basis here is that the Bank has been unjustifiably enriched by the imposition of charges based on a clause of the contract which, if unlawful, would be unenforceable. This being the case, the Bank have money taken in circumstances where they had no legal power to take it and there is no good equitable reason for them to retain it. This is the law of unjustified enrichment.

 

Everyone else,

 

The relevant section of the 1973 Act is indeed s.11(3). s.6(4)(a) deals with postponement of the period where there has been fraudulent activity by the Bank, or the Bank has induced the customer into error as to their right to claim. There has been no fraud or error (as defined in law)in this situation, therefore the section has no bearing.

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So by imposing their assertion that their charges are lawful on the customer (else, by not accepting the charges, the bank would not accept the customer), the bank has not induced the customer into error? Or by further stating after a claim has been made, they are STILL not inducing the customer into error? Is that what you are saying.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, by the way. I am merely trying to make sure I have everything clear in my head, as I have no doubt this is going to go all the way in Ordinary Cause, and I need to have all the arguments for and against before I make a definite decision. Appearing stupid in front of the judge will have very expensive consequences if I get it wrong. And I firstly need to convince my solicitor too.

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Seahorse,

 

If you had challenged the Bank some time ago regarding the legality of the charges and they had represented to you that, for example, they had cleared the nature and amount of the charges with the FSA and/or OFT. This may amount to a misrepresentation inducing you into error as to your right to make a claim.

 

The fact that they impose the charges does not of itself induce you into error in the sense the term is used in 6(4). It is certainly possible to make an argument along the lines you imply, but I see stronger arguments against and in a litigation situation, while it is possible, and perhaps wise, to have various arguments to support your case, these takes time to formulate and argue and time is money, especially when your solicitor costs £250 an hour!

 

Once your claim has been made (you have a summons served on the Bank), you are regarded as having made a relevant claim (see s.9) which stops the prescriptive clock, so what the Bank says following this is pretty much irrelevant to the question of prescription.

 

Your solicitor will not require much convincing of the prescription point and, if he/she is any good, they really ought to advise you to try to push the boundaries. However, they should also make you aware of the dangers here. The Bank have deep pockets and, were you to push for too much and win in the sheriff court, the Bank may keep you in the appeal courts for years. They can afford to do that, you cannot. It is a game, just remember Jarndyce v Jarndyce and sometimes taking your gains/cutting your losses is the smartest thing to do.

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re 6 4 a The banks have alleged over a long times in, publications, that everything they do is within the law- an induction of error in terms of the act and perhaps going as far as falling under 6 (4) b There is also the other part of Section 6 for some people regarding mental condition

 

case law suggests that, in some cases, depending on relationships between parties and the reputation of them that reasonable diligence might mean a consumer doing nothing

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi

 

I have a full hearing of my claim for charges over six years on Tuesday 3rd April. I have been asked to provide details of successful claims over six years can anyone help with this please. I had decided not to pursue the case, but when I spoke to the court clerk she advised that I may have to pay costs so I have to go along and do my best.

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Hi

 

I have a full hearing of my claim for charges over six years on Tuesday 3rd April. I have been asked to provide details of successful claims over six years can anyone help with this please. I had decided not to pursue the case, but when I spoke to the court clerk she advised that I may have to pay costs so I have to go along and do my best.

 

Bong

 

Well done !!!

I would be most grateful for the details

 

Regards

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  • 1 month later...
So by imposing their assertion that their charges are lawful on the customer (else, by not accepting the charges, the bank would not accept the customer), the bank has not induced the customer into error? Or by further stating after a claim has been made, they are STILL not inducing the customer into error? Is that what you are saying.

 

I'm not saying you are wrong, by the way. I am merely trying to make sure I have everything clear in my head, as I have no doubt this is going to go all the way in Ordinary Cause, and I need to have all the arguments for and against before I make a definite decision. Appearing stupid in front of the judge will have very expensive consequences if I get it wrong. And I firstly need to convince my solicitor too.

 

Did you speak to a solicitor, I am in the dock with Nationwide this week in Scotland court.

If I have helped click my scales....

 

Find my threads by clicking here

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Hi

 

I have a full hearing of my claim for charges over six years on Tuesday 3rd April. I have been asked to provide details of successful claims over six years can anyone help with this please. I had decided not to pursue the case, but when I spoke to the court clerk she advised that I may have to pay costs so I have to go along and do my best.

 

Any update on what happened? what went well and what didn't?

If I have helped click my scales....

 

Find my threads by clicking here

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