No probs DD.

thanks

trout

For the background to this see - 'Dodgy halifax CCA from Lowells' in the halifax and Bank of Scotland forum.

To date -

the period between 2005 - 2009 was a hazy, stressful time dealing with an acrimonious divorce whilst caring for 3 children and trying to run a business.Towards the end of the period I began to look at various financial agreements which I had taken out when not in a fit state to do so. I wanted to look at my halifax agreement because -

a) in October 2009 halifax notified me of a substantial hike in interest rates and I was unsure whether the agreement allowed for this.

b ) for some reason halifax changed my acc number in 2007 and I wanted to see what the account number was on the original agreement.

December 4 2009 I send a CCA request to halifax

no response from halifax

having received nothing from halifax I notify them that the account is in dispute and

that no further payments will be made until the dispute is resolved

halifax reply that they had sent me a copy of the reconstituted version of the executed agreement comprising both the original and copy of the current terms on 10/12/09

4/3 halifax issue DN under Section 87(1)CCA1974 to pay £xxx by 25/3

I reply on 16/3/2010 that I received no such documentation and so the acc remained in dispute.

18/3 halifax terminate agreement

halifax reply 31/3 that they did and ' note your comments ( in my letter of 16/3/2010 ) that the executed agreement we provided does not contain the prescribed terms.' - I made no such comment

halifax continue to add interest to acc

24/6/13 Acc assigned to lowells

I CCA Lowells

Lowells send me a halifax signed application form with prescribed terms but no agreement along with a Bank of Scotland unsigned agreement with different Int Rates to the application form.The covering letter from Halifax to Lowells states ' I refer to your recent communication and enclose a copy of your clients application, ' with no mention of the BOS agreement.Also enclosed were a number of monthly statements from 2010.

I inform Lowell that the documents that they have supplied do not constitute an agreement between Halifax and myself.

Letter tennis, then -

BW Legal issue an SD on 8/4/2014

In the SD it is stated that ' the sums became payable in full following the service of a default notice by the original creditor on the date stated below and this being unsatisfied by the Debtor ( it gives the default date as 29/7/2010 !! ).

Also, the agreement number on the SD is neither the original nor the second acc number that I had with Halifax

Any advice would be really appreciated.

thanks,

trout

IMO, this is simply issuing SD as a debt collection tool, report them in the first instance to the OFT & FCA.

Have you entered their complaints process?

If they wish to go to court on the evidence you have said then I fail to see how they will ever win!

Hi BB,

have I entered who,s complaints process ?

BOS and Lowlifes?

No I haven't as of yet.

I really need to get a good defence in to get this set aside asap.

I'm thinking of non compliance of S78 request by halifax and Lowells , defective termination by halifax. perhaps also wrong acc number on SD ( though I suppose they could correct that and reissue ).

thoughts please

Correct any notion that the SD is defective will mean they can issue you with a compliant one.

Failure to comply with a s.78 request should stop any enforcement action, it won't negate them reporting this to their bezzy mates in the CRA's, but taking legal action whilst in default of this, should, I would have hoped, stopped this in it's tracks.

The DJ will be very annoyed to find out they have failed to comply with CPR rules, for a start!

What are the CPR rules ?

Sorry, my apologies...

Civil Procedure Rules...

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules

I am not 100% but as this is an agreement under the CCA , then they have fallen foul of this, sorry I can't dig any deeper for you and find the exact CPR, just busy researching my own case..

http://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part07/pd_part07b

thanks

Take a read here trout :-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?407519-Statutory-Demands-and-Lowells.

Regards

Andy

Hi Andy,

So, I need to show the judge that I have just cause to dispute the debt, and by the end of next week.

What in your opinion would be my best way of succeeding in doing that ?

thanks,

trout

None compliance to your section 78 is ample...Lowell usually run away once you push it.

Ok Andy, but before I make an attempt at the defence could you please give me your view on the following -

Do you agree that the application form containing only prescribed terms and an unrelated,unsigned agreement with different int rates etc to the application form

cannot be linked and therefore constitute non compliance to my S78 request ?

Should I include a copies of the above in my defence for the Court

Also,do you mean non compliance to my S78 by the Halifax or Lowell, or perhaps both ?

Would it help to include the defective termination in March 2010 ?

What do you make of BW Legals claim in the SD that the DN and termination was at a later date ( I cannot remember receiving a second DN and second Termination ) ?

thanks

trout

Hi trout,

Just checking in to ensure that you are in capable hands. You are!

DD

thanks DD and I hope you have a Happy Easter

You too, trout!

Ok Andy, but before I make an attempt at the defence could you please give me your view on the following -

 

Do you agree that the application form containing only prescribed terms and an unrelated,unsigned agreement with different int rates etc to the application form

cannot be linked and therefore constitute non compliance to my S78 request ?

 

Should I include a copies of the above in my defence for the Court

 

Also,do you mean non compliance to my S78 by the Halifax or Lowell, or perhaps both ?

 

Would it help to include the defective termination in March 2010 ?

 

What do you make of BW Legals claim in the SD that the DN and termination was at a later date ( I cannot remember receiving a second DN and second Termination ) ?

 

thanks

 

trout

Forget the one to Halifax...you are dealing with Lowell now.....and no dont add anything further...retain all that for a court claim if ever issued.

Responding to your PM

Threads merged for complete history.Will just run through the thread now to see where we are with this.

Regards

Andy

Okay so there was a complience with both section 78 requests first the Haliprats complied with a reconstituted version and once assigned Lowlifes complied with what you deem to be an application form and not an agreement.

So please upload (if not already) a copy of this " Application/Agreement " lets take a look.......obscure any identifiable data.

Regards

Andy

There was no compliance to my S78 request from the halifax Andy ,

they kept writing to me in response to my acc in dispute letters that they had sent me a recon version of the executed agreement

comprising both the original and copy of the current terms,

but I never received anything from them,

hence the dispute ( if they had genuinely sent it and it had got lost in the post why didn't they just resend it to resolve the dispute ? ).

They also sent me a letter saying that I had commented in a letter to them dated xx/xx/xxxx

that the agreement that they had supplied !! did not contain the prescribed terms etc.

I have a copy of that letter to them and I did not refer to any agreement they had sent me as I never received one.

They said letter simply stated that I had not received anything from them and that my request remains outstanding.

Whilst this dispute was ongoing and prior to their letter refered to above

they sent A DN then terminated the agreement after only giving 14 days from the date on the DN.

With regard to the Application / Agreement I received from Lowells see post 41

The first 2 images are the front and back of the Halifax app/agreement ,

the 2nd two images are terms 1-5 of the T & C ' s from HBOS

( there were 19 terms etc in total ).they also sent copies of 12 monthly statements.

thanks

trout

Okay so the account was in dispute pre assignment....Lowells have complied with your section 78 request pre SD. Looking at what you have uploaded I would suspect that is evident for any court to agree compliance.

It would therefore seem that you have no option but to contact them and try to agree a payment plan/proposal under the circumstances as there is no reason to try to set a side....unfortunately.

Regards

Andy

a couple of queries Andy,

firstly,

Halifax issued a DN and gave me 19 days to pay £xxx.xx arrears,

then terminated after just 12 days when the balance is say £9 k.

I accept their termination but they continue to add interest for another 5 months

so now I owe £10 k.

I've read S98A.

Was this always there or is it an amendment,

what is the relevance of S87 and S88 and Brandon and Harrison ?

also with regard to the application form / agreement,

in it under section 4 KEY INFORMATION sub section 4.2 refers to condition 5 which is missing !!

Is it not the case that under a S78 request the Creditor

' shall give the debtor a copy of the executed agreement ( if any ) and of any other document refered to in it ?

thanks

trout

Also, sub section 3.7 of the application / agreement refers to notice given under condition 12.2 which is also missing.

Hi trout,

They can produce a recon in response to the S78 request, but I always understood that to enforce an agreement they had to produce a copy of the original agreement. It confirms that in Carey v HSBC.

The authority on DNs has to be Brandon because that is the higher court and despite the judges not really approving of Brandon they accepted his argument re the DN.