I own a house my son and daughter in law use to live in there are now divorced

my daughter in law is refusing to leave my house know claiming i had promised her and my son the house in that time when they moved in i made it clear to them this is only untill you get your council house there names have been on the council register for the last 8 years.

She is know claiming on detriment basis that in 2003 when they moved in they put in a new kitchen, bedroom etc over in the* 10 years they have spent about 10k for the own living comfort (painting, wood flooring)* no building work.

They have lived there rent free and mortgage free for the 10 years

is it possible she can get a share in the house how easy difficult is it to prove proprietary estoppel?

By putting there names on the council register the detriment from there side surely is finished?

For proprietary estoppel the daughter would need to convince the court that she was promised a share in the property, or that you knew of her mistaken belief that she had an interest in the property, or encouraged that belief.

The detriment would be putting in the kitchen/bedroom and so on. I don't think that would be cancelled out by going on the council register. However the fact they are on the register would perhaps be evidence for your view that they were staying there on a temporary basis ... although to be fair in most areas of the country I am not sure if an average couple without children would have any chance of getting a council house.

This is not a straightforward area of law and perhaps worth employing a solicitor if justified by the amount they are claiming.

A kitchen has a shelf life of 10 year they have been on the register for 9 years lived here rent free they have suffered no detriment.

She is claiming half of the house

You are correct to say that overall she suffered no detriment since she was staying there rent free. However from a legal perspective paying for the kitchen/bedroom is a technical detriment, since it is still a cost and she has paid for these things and will not receive the lasting benefit of them.

Even if there is a proprietary estoppel here I would think claiming 50% of the house is pretty excessive. Given the 50% claim I imagine she will be claiming that you promised the house would go be given to her and her ex-husband, and you will need to contest that. Unless she can produce some evidence to support this I imagine that aspect of the case is more likely to go in your favour.

Given the amount involved I think you should be seeing a solicitor ... proprietary estoppel is not the kind of case which is straightforward for a litigant in person to deal with.

I own a house my son and daughter in law use to live in there are now divorced

my daughter in law is refusing to leave my house know claiming i had promised her and my son the house in that time when they moved in i made it clear to them this is only untill you get your council house there names have been on the council register for the last 8 years.

She is know claiming on detriment basis that in 2003 when they moved in they put in a new kitchen, bedroom etc over in the* 10 years they have spent about 10k for the own living comfort (painting, wood flooring)* no building work.

 

They have lived there rent free and mortgage free for the 10 years

 

is it possible she can get a share in the house how easy difficult is it to prove proprietary estoppel?

 

By putting there names on the council register the detriment from there side surely is finished?

There is no detriment suffered by the daughter-in-law asregards the promise given, in this case the promise given has been fulfilled/performedby you. Is she still on housing register, has she been offered a house/flat by the council?

Any cosmetic works/improvements carried out by her and your son of their ownaccord , with or without your consent, does not provide the daughter – in –lawby reason of parity thereto (your consent that is) to any beneficial interestsin the property, because any consent given by you in this respect does notconstitute a contract between you three parties whereby you agreed to reimburseher for any percentage of these improvement costs and these improvements do notform any part of said promise (above); is that correct? . Or;

Did you give a promise that they could live in the propertyrent free, until they were housed by local authority on the condition that theyundertook the said improvements? Even ifthis is the case, this does not give rise to propriety estoppel as no detrimentsuffered in reliance thereof and certainly does not entitle the daughter –in –law to any share or beneficial interest in the value of the property whatsoever,if it is the case that she choseto carry out the said improvements, she clearly knew that the arrangement toreside in the property was on a temporary basis, therefore, it seems illogicalfor her to have carried out any improvements at all.

Further, in order to prove any entitlement to a share in theproperty as alleged or at all, she would need to establish a contract for suchto which you entered into and are bound by.

Based on the matters posted here by you, it appears that thepurpose upon which the promise given is no longer extant, it was given to acouple, circumstances have changed as regards that purpose, they have divorced,and therefore, you could argue that said promise no longer exists because itwas not given on an individual basis.

To my mind, notwithstanding the divorce, it appears that atthe most she might be able to succeed with an argument that said promise givenstill applies until she is housed by local authority, however, as said above,you can counter-argue that divorce extinguished the purpose upon which thepromise was made.

Can you please provide further details in respect of theabove and indeed any further information on this matter that you believe to berelevant and important?

Kind regards

The Mould

Thanks for all the feedback so far. When they moved in the house was in a bad state so i told them here are the keys this was 10 years ago and do what you need to do untill you get a council house it takes about 8 years to get one and every year they have renewing there application with the council my so was the main bread winner all his money went in to his ex s wife. in 2003 they moved in and put in carpets,bedroom,toilet,kitchen then about5 years ago they created storage space in the attock as her mum came to stay with them from pakistan there was too much suitcases etc and they created space in the attock costing about 2k then about two years ago they layed wood flooring as the carpets they layed in 2003 started to smell the wood flooring cost about 1200 paid by credit card.

in the total 10 years rent free they spended about 10k on the house for there own convenience in 2012 my son emailed the council they confirmed they where now number1 for a house that was feb 2012 in may they split up 2012.

in between that time they have visited council properties but they did not like the areas.

but she is now calming that all the things they done was to there detriment as i had gifted the house to them.

my son is denying this saying there was no gift.

HI depending where you live the rent on a council house could be loads more than £10k I live in Middlesbrough and council rent approx. £90 a week plus council tax approx. £900 a year. would say they have saved something like £40k in the 10 years she wants jam on it.

dpick

Well said dpick

She certainly wants jam on it, but she is not going to get it.

Come on tiger7861, anything else you wish to tell us that in return will help us to help you?

Kind regards

Have you in fact written to her asking her to leave and given her any sort of notice; if not do so now!

Then you can start eviction proceedings through the court, with the help of a solicitor, may take some time but IMO you will get it eventually.

Have you in fact written to her asking her to leave and given her any sort of notice; if not do so now!

Then you can start eviction proceedings through the court, with the help of a solicitor, may take some time but IMO you will get it eventually.

Yes we have the case is with the.courts she has a barrister who is claiming estoppel saying the house was a gift she was refused

legal aid to fight this.case

Has a claim actually been filed? Or just threatened?

Yes we have the case is with the.courts she has a barrister who is claiming estoppel saying the house was a gift she was refused

legal aid to fight this.case

Then simply respond by stating that you agreed she and son could live there rent free until they were housed by .local authority and any monies she claims to have spent on the property while living there rent free were undertaken of her own accord and no contract exist whereby you are you are legally responsible for the costs claimed by her for these improvements; put her to the strictest proof on the same and inform the Court that your son does not agree with this claim made by his ex wife.

Kind regards

The Mould

I sent a possesion order she came to court with a barrister with this.gift story the courts have said if there is no resolve it will go to trial

I sent a possesion order she came to court with a barrister with this.gift story the courts have said if there is no resolve it will go to trial

Then go to trial, because you gave no gift and she does not have grounds to plead propriety estoppel.

Any further info would be extremely helpful as we can only advise you based upon the material you have posted here.

Kind regards

The Mould

Can judges strike out b4 gng to trial

They can if they think the defence has no basis in fact or law? however if there some legal precedent and council have an argument then it must be heard and decided upon.

But i thnk it will go to trial

Then let it go to trial.

As a matter of law you are owed 50% of the equity of the property after the mortgage and fees are paid.

Calculate these fees, the mortgage, estate agents and solicitors, when all have been paid upon sale of house, how much remains?

Come back on that, then I shall input further on this matter.

Kind regards

The Mould

Then let it go to trial.

 

As a matter of law you are owed 50% of the equity of the property after the mortgage and fees are paid.

 

Calculate these fees, the mortgage, estate agents and solicitors, when all have been paid upon sale of house, how much remains?

 

Come back on that, then I shall input further on this matter.

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

Im sorry i dont understand the house has no mortgagae

Im sorry i dont understand the house has no mortgagae

Please accept my apologies for the above, I confused your case with another case here on CAG.

If this matter must go to trial, you have your side of this case, supported by your son, to defeat her propriety estoppel claim.

In my opinion, based upon all material posted here by you, there are no grounds for a propriety estoppel claim against your promise given.

Report back here as the matter develops.

Kind regards

The Mould

Is it hard to prove estoppel

Is it hard to prove estoppel

You need to research the case law on this subject.

It comes down to this, did you promise the house to son and daughter - in -law if they undertook the improvements? Did you promise a share in property if they undertook these improvements? Did you promise to repay them the monies they spent on these improvements?

At any point while they were staying at property rent and mortgage free, did you ever discuss these improvements and give a promise such as alleged by daughter-in-law?

Kind regards

The Mould

10 years rent free residency is a powerful argument; especially with nothing in writing, only a court can decide I think!

You need to research the case law on this subject.

 

It comes down to this, did you promise the house to son and daughter - in -law if they undertook the improvements? Did you promise a share in property if they undertook these improvements? Did you promise to repay them the monies they spent on these improvements?

 

At any point while they were staying at property rent and mortgage free, did you ever discuss these improvements and give a promise such as alleged by daughter-in-law?

 

Kind regards

 

The Mould

this converstion never took place she claims i promised her the house at that time the house was under my wifes name she bacame ill and in 2007 the house was put in my wifes name and my self. but in 2003 my wife owned the house but in her defence she claims i promised her the house.

so if she by any chance convinces the court that there was a promise what will be the consequnces?