Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder infoplease Novitiate

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    Default Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Hello,

    I'm hoping that someone may have some knowledge on this. If you are convicted for a driving offence, i.e. driving without a valid tax disc or insurance or something similar, and are fined-do you get a criminal record?

    Thanks

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  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder alexifa Novitiate alexifa's Avatar

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Most driving offences are classed as criminal and so you do have a record. However, usually when in a situation where you have to declare any criminal convictions, driving offences are excluded. (Driving without insurance is often not excluded)

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  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder AndyE Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Any offence that carries a custodial sentence is recordable, along with a whole bunch of other stuff that's been added in recent years. Driving without insurance isn't recordable, nor (I think) is not having any road tax.


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    Basic Account Holder bandit8450 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    No it isnt...believe me it isnt a criminal record dont worry I know. You may realise what i do for a living..


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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Why is it then when you drive without insurance do you get summoned to court rather than a on the spot fine, I know that you can be given up to six points on your licence, but I have always thought it is a criminal offence as my brother in law got refused a job for the same thing?

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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    I think you'll find that driving without insurance is a criminal offence - since about 1990 I think.

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    Basic Account Holder bandit8450 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    driving without insurance is not a criminal offence . you do not get a criminal conviction..and it is not classed as a crime by the police..trust me.. I know...work it out..thanks


  8. #8
    Banned Karnevil

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by department of transport
    3.2 Driving a vehicle without third party liability cover is a criminal offence, albeit one where an offender can only be dealt with summarily in Magistrates' court
    ...


  9. #9
    Basic Account Holder rogerebaker Informative rogerebaker Informative rogerebaker Informative rogerebaker's Avatar

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by bandit8450
    driving without insurance is not a criminal offence . you do not get a criminal conviction..and it is not classed as a crime by the police..trust me.. I know...work it out..thanks
    No insurance IS a criminal offence but it is not recordable hence it is not part of a criminal record.

    You are genarally summons to court for No Insurance as the court has the option to disqualify you. The same would be the case if you exceed the speed limit by lots, have 9 point on your licence when trapped speeding.

    This has however changed very recently and No insurance is now a 200 FPN

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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    PND's are an alternative to court. You can still be taken to court, and you can also opt for court yourself (not that you would want to if you admit the offence).


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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by bandit8450
    You may realise what i do for a living..
    Ooh are you a


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  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder bandit8450 Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    yes im sad like you....


  13. #13
    Basic Account Holder chesham Highly informative chesham Highly informative chesham Highly informative chesham Highly informative chesham Highly informative chesham Highly informative

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    Thumbs up Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Hello....driving without insurance is a criminal offence...driving over the speed limit and getting flashed and subsequently fined is a criminal offence...Bandit you are completely wrong!!

    All these offences ARE criminal offences under the Road Traffic Act 1988 - however, the Police and Criminal Evidence Act defines how certain criminal offences (and common law offences) should be dealt with ...some by arrest and some by remote detection and, more frequently, detected non-recorded.

    You do not get a criminal record for any offence for which you are not arrested and subsequently charged with it. You may have a PNC record created, or even a crime report, however you will not have a 'record' which you need to declare.

    Trust me, I was in the force and then went to Uni, did law and work the other side of the fence

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  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder POCA Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Quote Originally Posted by chesham
    the Police and Criminal Evidence Act defines how certain criminal offences (and common law offences) should be dealt with ...some by arrest and some by remote detection and, more frequently, detected non-recorded.

    You do not get a criminal record for any offence for which you are not arrested and subsequently charged with it. You may have a PNC record created, or even a crime report, however you will not have a 'record' which you need to declare.
    I'm not quite with you there. It all depends on what type of "criminal record" you're talking about. Any conviction for any offence will generate a "criminal record" in the broadest sense, i.e. a record that you have been convicted of the specified offence.

    For the purposes of supplying a record of criminal convictions to people such as prospective employers this is carried out via the Criminal Records Bureau. Their own definition of "criminal record" is the same as that used on the Police National Computer (PNC). An offence only appears on PNC if it is a recordable offence as defined by the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000. This is further reinforced by the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act 1974, which states that (except for certain excluded purposes) convictions become "spent" after a certain amount of time and so do not appear on a "criminal record" generated by the CRB (but will appear on PNC).

    So, whether you have a "criminal record" in the sense of someone performing a CRB check on you depends on what you were convicted for (is it a recordable offence?) and how long ago it was (is it spent?).

    And, for info, driving without insurance is a criminal offence (s. 143 of the Road Traffic Act 1988) but is not a recordable offence so it doesn't generate a PNC/CRB criminal record.

    Note that some offences may appear on PNC if you were convicted of a recordable offence in the same proceedings. So, if you were convicted of drink driving (a recordable offence) and driving without insurance (a non-recordable offence) both would be recorded: Reg 3(3) of the National Police Records (Recordable Offences) Regulations 2000.

    Bandit, I don't know what job you do/did but I hope you weren't a police officer.

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  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder Le Professor Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Lets look at this scenario. You are fined under s.143(2) for using a vehicle without an insurance policy in force under s143(1) RTA 1988 and you are (as suggested earlier) fined 200. You don't pay the 200 and you are hauled back before the court, where magistrates inquire into your means and you are given more time to pay by virtue of s. 75 Magistrate's Court Act 1981. Still you don't pay and finally the court issues a warrant of of commitment to prison for default of payment for either culpable neglect or wilful refusal (take your pick). You are imprisoned for 7 days (the maximum you can serve for that sum as provided for in schedule 4 Magistrates Court Act 1980). You serve the 7 days in any prision in the UK (Pentoville, Brixton, Higdown) take your pick. You are released. Have you now got a criminal record? The answer oddly enough is that the mere fact that you have been committed to prison in those circumstances does not mean that you have a criminal record, even though you actually have a prison record because the court is simply enforcing what amounts to a civil debt which came into being because of criminal conviction.

    So one part of the problem cleared up but what happens in respect of the original offence of driving without an insurance policy, Whether or not on conviction, a person has a PNC criminal record depends on whether the offence on conviction is or not a recordable offence. if it is not a recordable offence and most driving offences are not recordable (inclusive of a failure to have an insurance policy for a vehicle driven in force at the time of driving it) then there is nothig to worry about on that front and will safely be hidden away from CRB checks etc. However, for every conviction, distinct from the PNC records, you have the court register recording details of every conviction pronounced in that court and it is available on application in particular circumstances. This I'd submit, is ALSO a criminal record in the more unfamiliar sense of the word. Wheras the PNC will weed out spent convictions for some offences after about 10 years, the court register is always available for about 75 years. Again, and oddly enough wheras you have the PNC network being able to access the court registers it is not the other way round.

    Hope this deals with some unansweredd questions raised by this thread


  16. #16
    Basic Account Holder halibut Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    I have gotten points for speeding, and I have also been given points and a fine for driving without insurance or MOT (No, I'm not proud of it )

    I have recently got an enhanced criminal disclosure for a university course, and none of the above appeared on it.


  17. #17
    ian cognito
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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Trust me, I was in the force and then went to Uni, did law and work the other side of the fence
    You mean you break the law for a living????


  18. #18
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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    bandit are you a police officer? If so no wonder the country is in the state it is if the people that are meant to be enforcing the law don't even know it.


  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder wykeite Novitiate

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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Have a look at policespecials.com to see how sure of the law your average bobby is . Lots of amazing arguments, basic questions that really shouldn't be needed to be asked by policemen, many appear to be clueless. I must however temper my comment with the statement that the majority of the members appear quite normal and level headed. That said there are far too many on the site that state 'if in doubt, report for summons and let the CPS et al sort it out. Make what you will of that!


  20. #20
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    Default Re: Criminal Record? Do you get one for this?

    Have to agree - after being threatened with a beating by some bouncers (whilst sober) pretty much in front of a police officer I was told it wasn't his problem - on probing and telling him it could be deemed assualt he responded with no its not I did law at university - my response - you obviously didn't do very well did you?

    Had to walk away then as the copper looked more likely to nick me than the bouncers at that stage.



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