Hi

I recieved one of these a couple of weeks back and after doing some resurch on some forums i decided to email them the following letter:

Dear whom it may concern

I refer to your invoice dated the 13th August 2013 and received on the 15th August 2013. Parking Charge notice number:

In response, I would ask you to note the following.

When an invoice is issued under the law of contract to a vehicle which although allowed to park on the land, is in breach of the conditions relating to parking, it could be argued that the charge being demanded is so high that it amounts to a penalty and is therefore unlawful under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999.

Therefore should it be your intention to pursue this matter further, I will require the following information.,

1) Precise details of the calculation used to establish the sum pursued in this case, taking account of the following statement issued by the Department for Transport.

Charges for breaking a parking contract must be reasonable and a genuine pre-estimate of loss. This means charges must compensate the landholder only for the loss they are likely to suffer because the parking contract has been broken. For example, to cover the unpaid charges and the administrative costs associated with issuing the ticket to recover the charges. Charges may not be set at higher levels than necessary to recover business losses and the intention should not be to penalise the driver.

2) I also require written proof that as a third party agent you have contractual consent from the land owner to raise legal proceedings on their behalf.

Furthermore, should you fail to provide a detailed response to any of the points raised in this correspondence a POPLA reference will be required in order that this issue can be progressed to the independent appeals body. I am of course fully aware that the decision of POPLA is binding only on the pursuer and not the defender.

I hope this information clearly outlines my position and I look forward to your detailed written response.

I got the following reply yesterday:

Thank you for your correspondence in relation to the outstanding parking charge.

The car park is on private land and a private landowner is free to impose any terms they wish on the use of their land by others. The terms on which customers are allowed to use the car park are clearly stipulated on the signage and people have the option not to park there if they do not wish to incur those charges.

There are a sufficient number of signs in the car park, which clearly state that if you fail to comply with the terms you will be liable to pay a parking charge. When you drove into the car park and parked your vehicle, you agreed to the parking terms detailed on the signage. Further to your request, we are not required to provide you with the breakdown or precise calculations of the charge.

There is photographic evidence to show that you failed to comply with the parking terms. Therefore we are entitled under those terms to require you to pay the parking charge and to take enforcement action against you if you refuse or fail to pay.

We are under no obligation at present to provide you with a copy of our contract with the landowner, but be advised that we do have the appropriate contractual authority to levy these charges and we can provide proof of this to both POPLA and the small claims courts.

In light of the above the parking charge remains outstanding at £45.

To prevent further action being taken please either contact us on 08444778009 to pay by telephone or send a cheque to Athena ANPR Ltd, Po Box 306, Chertsey, KT16 6ED. Cheques should be made payable to Athena ANPR Ltd.

Regards

Athena ANPR LTD

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Shall i just ignor it now? Has this ever got messy for anyone. Im assuming i wont have people knocking on my door or wont end up going to court?

Thanks

What they have written is wrong and they and their Desk jockeys know it, write back once more referring to your previous request for a breakdown of costs and proof of contract and ask where the POPLA number is that you already requested - then ignore unless they supply you with a POPLA number then use it to appeal and then - ignore

One thing they omitted was that the contract that is entered into when parking on private land is between the driver and the land owner or its designated collector. The driver of the car on that day is not necessarily

the owner nor the registered keeper so they have no way of knowing when they state in their letter that it was specifically you who failed to comply with their terms.

Thank you both for your replies.

So shall i reply asking for the information i requested in the first email or shall i reply stating that they need to prove i was the driver?

Thanks

Proof of driver has never been recommended as the right action to take unless you are in Scotland. The PPC will hassle the RK and are allowed to do so after a change n the law in October last year, it matters not as these things are still unenforceable invoices especially where cameras are used as you have to enter the land via an implied right of access to read 'the contract' and if you reject it and do not park, you are sent an invoice anyway as you did not buy a ticket but popped up on the cameras

Ok thanks Guys I will send my reply asking for the info. Then ignore

Use recorded delivery too, its proof you sent it, and can claim it back when you stuff them....They may have a contract to monitor car parking and issue pre halloween shenanigans, but they specifically need a contract that allows them to issue legal proceedings either on behalf of the landowner or in their own name...

Just go to the POPLA appeal as they havent properly answered your letter and use it as evidence against them.

Hi

I recieved a reply to my last email requesting the POPLA code. Instead of emailing me back they have written to me to say they are in the right and im wrong blah blah blah.

They have given me the POPLA code which they have called "Appeal Verification code" and told me to think very carfully that i have adequate grounds before appealing to POPLA as if POPLA rejects my appeal i will have to pay the full charge.

Do i appeal and pray i win? or do I Ignore?

Thanks

They are lying. If you lose at POPLA you are not obliged to pay anything. POPLA decisions are binding on the PPC but not on the motorist.

Thanks DBC.

So worth appealing to POPLA? How do i do this? Is there a letter template i can use?

Thanks

there are some brilliant ones on the sticky's.....Ask yourself why is the PPC asking you to think very carefully before contacting popla......1) You will more than likely win. 2) It will cost them £32. 3) If they lose the pcn is quashed. 4) if they win you can still go to court but it will cost them, and they know the probability is where a good defence is lodged is that they lose.......

popla have their own website to start the process online

Hi an update from me.

Today I received an email from Athena with all the evidence they have sent to POPLA. They have included a letter from LIDL dated 2010 that they do have permission to enforce parking fines, that means I'm pretty stuffed right?? As part of my argument was they needed to provide me with evidence that they have permission to enforce fines. What now?

Thanks

Hi an update from me.

 

Today I received an email from Athena with all the evidence they have sent to POPLA. They have included a letter from LIDL dated 2010 that they do have permission to enforce parking fines, that means I'm pretty stuffed right?? As part of my argument was they needed to provide me with evidence that they have permission to enforce fines. What now?

 

Thanks

Hi an update from me.

 

Today I received an email from Athena with all the evidence they have sent to POPLA. They have included a letter from LIDL dated 2010 that they do have permission to enforce parking fines, that means I'm pretty stuffed right?? As part of my argument was they needed to provide me with evidence that they have permission to enforce fines. What now?

 

Thanks

That letter is dated 2010, is probably worthless anyway, but you should say in the appeal you wish to see the current contract granting authorisation to issue & pursue invoices. You have asked for a breakdown of pre estimate of loss I take it?

do they actually say "fines" in their letters to you?.

Hi themagician. they say "Parking Charge Notice"

Thanks

That letter is dated 2010, is probably worthless anyway, but you should say in the appeal you wish to see the current contract granting authorisation to issue & pursue invoices. You have asked for a breakdown of pre estimate of loss I take it?

Hi Armadillo.

I have already submitted my appreal to POPLA and in my original letter to Athena appealing i did ask for the precise detial of the calculation use dot establish the sum purued.

Here is a copy of thier gounds to which they believe i should pay up.

signs that are prominently displayed throughout the site, giving notice to an area of 57 parking

parking for a period of longer than 60 minutes which would incur the charge we

Thanks

Have you got a picture of the signs?

did they really get planning permission for all those " alleged" signs ???.

Their signs my be bigger then the BPA advise as a minimum but you still cant read them at the top of a lamp post!

I have seen one on another forum, there is an offer to park for said amount but it is not clear who is making the offer. There are Lidle emblems on the signs, and it says our "customers have said parking is difficult " It would seem that Lidle are making the offer and if you don't pay them, and there is no way of doing so. Athena are trying to penalise you.

That says the landowner is offering you to park over 60mins for a charge of £90, which is a contractual sum, but offers no means to pay this. ..

Then it states it is for breach of contract. It can't be both! You need to have in your appeal that you must have sight of contract and the break down of pre estimate of loss to the land owner.

Have you got a picture of the signs?

I do but i am unable to attach it on here. What details do you need from the pic?

Thanks

Just noticed on the sign it says that profits made from parking charges will be donated to charity.... REALLY????

That says the landowner is offering you to park over 60mins for a charge of £90, which is a contractual sum, but offers no means to pay this. ..

Then it states it is for breach of contract. It can't be both! You need to have in your appeal that you must have sight of contract and the break down of pre estimate of loss to the land owner.

Am i able to add to my appreal once submitted?

Is this the same?