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cap 1 account in dispute sold - sold to lowells


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Hi Daniella,

 

Thank you for looking in,

 

Yes, the card was taken out in 2005. defaulted 2008.

 

would you be kind enough to explain " where an account has been varied ", in simple terms please :) still trying to understand everything.

 

Otherwise, will wait for the SAR, then report back, also if/when the letter 'threat level' increases.

 

all the best, tom

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Hi Tom,

 

A variation is anything where they have changed the terms and conditions of the original agreement. Every time they change the interest rate, for example, they have varied the conditions.

 

Lowells send out any old thing and say it's your agreement, but they often back down if you challenge them. :-) In this case they haven't sent your original agreement.

 

DD

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Hi Daniella,

 

Ah, thank you for that. So if I understand you correctly, any credit card variation means that they ( DCA's and banks? ) would have to supply the 'Original Signed Agreement' in order to enforce in law, ie. if asked, and they are unable to produce, they are unable to enforce?

 

Now I understand :) slaps forehead, I've been reading cag for a year, and not understood, sigh........

 

Thank you so much, tom

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Hi Tom,

 

This is something that came up in the Carey v HSBC case and DCAs always attempt to turn this judgment in their favour because the judge said that a CCA request could be satisfied by a reconstituted copy, but as far as I am concerned Paragraph 234 (4) says they must produce a copy of the original agreement and it's an argument I have used very successfully in conjunction with the CPUTR 2008 and pointing out that they couldn't possibly have provided what they allege is the agreement at the time the application was made.

 

Unfortunately some judges allow enforcement even when they shouldn't because they favour the creditors, so I would always rather head them off before they consider court action because even with the best arguments in the world if you get the wrong judge he'll find in their favour.

 

I am always very argumentative on every point in the letters I send any DCAs so hopefully they will realize I am going to be a complete pain if they try to enforce their dodgy agreements. It's good to throw in some accusations about their trying to obtain money by deliberately providing documents they know cannot have been given to you before signature, and a few threats about reporting them FOS, OFT and anyone else you can think of.

 

I couldn't understand anything at all when I joined CAG. :???::???: I read everything over and over again and still couldn't get it. It took many months reading dozens of threads before it finally fell into place. For the first three months my head was absolutely spinning. :-)

 

DD

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  • 2 weeks later...

discount letter

 

ignore them

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have just received a letter from cap1, saying that they will not supply the documents " because you did not sign your letter" Aye, right!

 

They also say that " the 40 day time limit to provide you with the SAR does not start to run until we receive the correct documentation"

 

Well, they are a bank, so only to be expected that they will try and make the law up as they go along! My SAR request supplied them with all the information that I am lawfully required to supply them with?

 

I phoned the number supplied, after being passed around/put on hold - foreign call centre - I eventually hung up, it was costing me money.

 

They received my request on the 2nd sept. Do I wait until the 40 days, then start complaining to the ICO and others? No other bank has asked for me to jump through these hoops, what is the law covering the supply of SAR.

 

tom

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I have just received a letter from cap1, saying that they will not supply the documents " because you did not sign your letter" Aye, right!

 

They also say that " the 40 day time limit to provide you with the SAR does not start to run until we receive the correct documentation"

 

Well, they are a bank, so only to be expected that they will try and make the law up as they go along! My SAR request supplied them with all the information that I am lawfully required to supply them with?

 

I phoned the number supplied, after being passed around/put on hold - foreign call centre - I eventually hung up, it was costing me money.

 

They received my request on the 2nd sept. Do I wait until the 40 days, then start complaining to the ICO and others? No other bank has asked for me to jump through these hoops, what is the law covering the supply of SAR.

 

tom

 

Try: -

 

0800 9524924

:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:
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you need to always sign the sar letter

 

it is a legal document so requires it

 

the CCA is the one you never sign

 

though, there have been very few instance of signature lifting we've ever heard of here.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks guys, I'll write, even though I gave all pertenant details over the phone! But damned if I'm going to supply them with a signature. It took them 22 days from receiving the SAR to ask for this? Deliberately wasting time I guess.

 

Ah well, this means that I will be going after them for the charges.

 

tom

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  • 1 month later...

Hi, I did eventually receive my SAR info from cap 1 - nothing new or unexpected?

 

in this time, I received 3 letters from re d, the 3rd offering

 

carrot - 30% off

stick - they would 'instruct' hambles legal !

 

Followed by 3 letters from hambles legal, the 3rd offering

 

carrot - 50% off

 

stick,

 

" If you contact us about settlement of your account within the next 10 days, you can avoid legal procedings.

 

We are not required to write to you again........ If we don't hear from you, the next correspondence you receive will relate to the further action which we have decided is the most appropriate to recover this debt. It may therefore be from the court or from one of our agents........."

 

Do I continue to ignore? I now have call barring, so am not constantly harassed by them :)

 

thanks, Tom

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Hi Tom,

 

Because this is Lowell's who have a nasty habit of issuing Statutory Demands when they don't have the correct paperwork to go through the County Court I would write back and repeat everything you have already said. I had to do this three times before they actually got it.

 

Send a copy of your first letter and say it all again in this letter: CPUTR, Waksman, the lot.

 

Then say you will report them to OFT, FOS, everyone, for attempting to obtain money by supplying a copy of an agreement which could not have been sent to you at the time you applied for the card and you can prove it beyond any doubt whatsoever.

 

DD

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  • 4 months later...

Hi DD,

 

 

As you say, they do not seem to have grasped it? no surprise, so will send it again. They have escalated ? from Lowlife to Rod, to Hambles, to Freds, to BC, back to Freds.......

 

 

While digging through the growing folder, I came across this, attached, is this the 'original agreement'? and,

1/ is it compliant, ie. not signed by either party, terms and conditions 'not within', etc

2/ does it trump their made up 'reconstituted' agreement?

 

 

advise gratefully sought :)

 

 

thanks Tom

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so where is the signed CCA then?

 

that's just the leaflet that went out with all cards.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks guys,

 

found an envelope with all the orig stuff,

my copy of application,

orig advert,

acceptance etc,

 

plus this thing, which as you say, the card was attached to.

 

But it does say 'credit card agreement regulated by the consumer credit act 1974',

and that is all I got?

Pretty sure that nothing else was sent,

I was good at filing stuff.

 

 

Is it possible that that is all they sent out?

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but its not signed by you

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 5 months later...

Hi,

 

 

Freds int have started a new form of harassment?

 

 

They have started sending letters to a neighbours address,

saying that they had "made enquiries for confirmation of my current place of residence.

 

 

Information has been received confirming that your address details have been changed to this address"

 

 

They sent out a couple, a few months ago,

 

 

I phoned them, which is presumably the reason that these letters have been sent, and told them that my address had not changed.

 

They have started this again?

 

 

I contacted ICO, who told me to write complaining, sent recorded, and

 

 

if these continue, they will raise a complaint against them, and also suggested that I could take this to the FCA.

 

I take it that this is a common way that they try and force communication?

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