I am posting this on behalf of a relative who has received two Claim Forms out of Northampton (CCBC) County Court.

Both are for debts originally with HSBC a) Credit Card (1***.** and b) Bank Loan (1****.**).

Both Particulars of Claim are basically the same except the Credit Card uses the wording 'a regulated agreement' whereas the Bank Loan uses the wording 'a loan agreement'.

Both say that a Notice of Assignment has been provided to the defendant with a date on the Bank Loan one but on the Credit Card one there is no date. Also that a Default Notice has been served on the defendant (no dates given on either)

Finishes with wording that The complainant has complied as far as is necessary with the Pre-Action Conduct Practice Direction.

Claim Forms are both dated 29th April 2013.

Both claim forms were acknowledged with intention to defend all the claim and asking for the extra 14 days.

A letter has been sent for each claim asking under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of the document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

1. The agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

2. The assignment

3. The default notice

4. A statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached.

These letters were sent by Special Delivery and were received and signed for on 7th May by MKDP LLP.

In addition to this a SAR was sent to HSBC again by Special Delivery and was received also on 7th May.

My relative states that they have not received any notice of assignment or default notice for either of the debts.

In addition they also believe that they have not made a payment or acknowledged the debt for the 6 years prior to the issue of the Claim forms (but is close)

To date they have received no acknowledgement from MKDP LLP.

What is our next step please? Do we now send N244 and also should we also have sent a SAR to MKDP LLP

Anyone able to offer advice?

maybe best do a thread for each claim. and type up the particulars for each less any identifiables.

double check re statute bar status. if 100% sure, then is an absolute defence. in addition to whatever else.

there is no strict requirement as such for them to comply with a cpr 31.14 request, but they should if applicable. up to them.

are they small claims?

any missold ppi?

you could do a sar. but, bear in mind that they might refuse as there is litigation. so would be as per the litigation disclosure rules. plus, a sar takes 40 days, if they comply. is it small claims?

stick to all court deadlines. ie submit a defence in time if defending.

Hi GT,

It's important to separate the two claims so, in dealing with them, the cases don't get confused as suggested already above by Ford.

Accordingly, this thread has now been renamed as dealing ONLY with the Credit Card claim. Start a new thread for the Loan Account claim.

From here on, this thread should refer only to the Credit Card claim made by HSBC.

The SAR was not necessary because the CPR 31.14 request should get you all the info you require. As the claims has not yet been allocated to any claims track, the CPR 31.14 request should be effective.

As Ford says, it's vital that you check as best you can when the debt is due to become SB'd. If it's already SB'd, that's it - case over !

Thanks - Particulars of Claim are as follows:

The claimant claims the sum of £1,***,** being monies due from the defendant to the claimant under a regulated agreement originally between the defendant and HSBC Bank Plc. The defendants account number was xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and was assigned to the Claimant on (no date), notice of this has been provided to the defendant. The defendant has failed to make payments in accordance with the terms of the agreement and a default notice has been served pursuant to the Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant claims the sum o £1,xxx,xx and costs. The Complainant has complied as ar as is necessary with the pre-action conduct practice direction.

I am assured that no default notice or notice of assignment has been received.

This would be a small claims track.

CPR 31.14 sent as above and SAR was sent to HSBC not MKDP LLP

ok, you have already sent a sar? see what if anything comes back re that (prob not in time though).

wait see what comes back in time. if nothing, then submit your defence (if defending). as is small claims, they prob would refuse/neglect 31.14 anyway even though not tracked.

double check statute bar

any missold ppi?

they would have to show that a compliant dn (if applicable) and assignment was issued and sent.

Hi GT,

Please confirm if the CPR 31.14 request was sent to MK or HSBC.

It was sent to MKDP LLP - we sent the SAR to HSBC to try and ascertain if it is statute barred.

that seems ok. 31.14 to the claimants, sar to the original creditors?

Yes that is correct.

Good, if they fail to supply info in time for you to make a proper defence by the required deadline, you can ask MK to agree to an extension, By Consent, of the deadline for filing your defence.

Otherwise, you file your defence by the due date stating that the claimant has failed to supply key documents and/or information and you are therefore unable to make a full defence until this info is provided.

Thanks for the help so far everyone. Is there any chance someone could look at the new thread about the bigger claim that I have posted again by MKDP LLP

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?391771-County-Court-Claim-Form-Loan-From-HSBC-MKDP-LLP-Claimant%282-Viewing%29-nbsp

HSBC are very good at issueing SAR request (NOT) , mine came in two packages = 1. just bumpf, 2nd later (And Late = after ICO intervention, and a promise to up grade their response times = yeah!!!! ) so guess what happened a court case had been dealt with and crucial evidence that could be used against them enclosed in 2nd Bundle! so CPR 31.14 is a real must, if they refuse make sure the evidence required before the case>

Reminders sent re CPR 31.14 by Special Delivery on 20.5.13 to MKDP LLP

Still trying to get duplicate credit card statements for this but we now know last payment was made on 21/03/2007 - need duplicate statements to see if any purchases made by defendant after 28th April 2007.

statute bar is usually re from last payment or written acknowlegment whichever is the later. but, i see what you mean, ie would a purchase be regarded as an acknowledgment?

ps, not much point doing reminders re 31.14 request if deemed received. either they reply, or they don't. if applicable, make representations on that if they don't.

As Ford says, if no purchases were made since the last payment on 21st March 2007, the a/c should be Statute Barred and this is an absolute defence.

You need to check as best you can to see if any purchase was made later, and when exactly.

I'll look at the other thread which you have linked to in post #12 above, and comment there.

Thank you

S 77/78 request also sent today.

thats ok. such a request is a statutory requirement for compliance (although they can supply a reconstitution in response, but any recon should be shown to be accurate. if shown not, then should be no enforcement until so. see Kotecha v Phoenix CA case). but note the time limit re that, would it be in time?

there is also cpr practice direction 16 para 7.3 which says that re a claim based on a written agreement, the original 'contract or docs constituting the agreement' should be available at hearing (note; 'should'. and, they often use PD 7E para 5.2A (ie online claim) to avoid that, but it could be argued that 5.2a only applies re attachment of docs re an online claim or separate particulars. ie the originals 'should' still be available at hearing?)

don't forget also the requirement for a compliant default notice before enforcement (if applicable).

Thank you

Well it is almost time to submit a defence - would like to do it by Thursday. We have heard nothing at all from MKDP not even an acknowledgement of our requests. I have been looking at various holding defences on the site and have now put the one below togther. It would be appreciated if someone could have a look at it for us please? We have been unable to get any statements so far regarding this account and it may well be that it is statute barred as stated in previous posts but without the relevant statements we can not be 100& certain.

DEFENCE

1. I, XXX of XXXXXXXXXXXX am The Defendant in this action and make the following statement as my defence to the claim made by MKDP LLP

2. Except where otherwise mentioned in this defence, I neither admit nor deny any allegation made in The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim and put The Claimant to strict proof thereof.

3. The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim are vague and fail to disclose any cause of action; they appear to be an abuse of the process in that they fail to deal with the basic rules of pleading in accordance with the civil procedure rules. (Even allowing for the constraints of the bulk issue system)

4. No documents supporting the claim in the particulars have been offered which The Defendant needs to establish what agreement it is that this action is based upon and so The Claimant's claim appears without merit.

5. On receipt of the claim form The Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request for a copy of the agreement, default notice, notice of assignment and a statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached which form the basis of this claim.

6. The Defendant also sent a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 for a copy of the agreement.

7. It has been confirmed via the Royal Mail website that the above letters were received and signed for.

8. To date no response has been received from The Claimant.

9. As a result, the Claimants claim does not contain sufficient particulars to permit me to file a properly particularised and pleaded defence. I am at a disadvantage to respond to this claim. Consequently, I deny all allegations on the particulars of claim and put the Claimant to strict proof thereof.

10. It is denied that I have an agreement with MKDP LLP.

11. If, which is not admitted, such an agreement exists, the precise terms and date of any such agreement are not admitted. I do not have in my possession any such agreement and am not therefore able to comment thereon. The Claimant is put to strict proof as to the date and terms of such agreement.

12. Without admission that any cause of action is shown by The Claimant it is denied that I am indebted to The Claimant as alleged or at all.

13 It is alleged the Claimant has an agreement and there has been an Assignment. Within the proof of claim it was stated that there had been an assignment to the Claimant on a date which was given as Blank. As such it is contended that no such Notice of Assignment has been served pursuant to Section 136(1) of the Law of Property Act 1925. Without a Notice of Assignment, The Assignment is merely equitable and The Claimant is put to strict proof to disclose this and prove that this claim can commence in their own name.

14. AND the Defendant

Seeks an order that The Claimant’s action is struck out or otherwise is dismissed on the grounds that any claim cannot succeed.

i. Alternatively if the court decides not to strike out The Claimant’s case, it is requested that The Court orders full disclosure of the requested documents pursuant to the civil procedure Rules.

ii. The Defendant respectfully asks the permission of The Court to amend this defence if or when The Claimant provides full disclosure of the requested documents and allows inspection of the original documents.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

seems fair at first sight, maybe perhaps with a tweak/trim or two. it seems to address their particulars?, and therefore be 'cpr compliant' re submitting a defence? bumping though for further input

Defence now altered after advice on another thread. Hopefully this one is now ok.

1. Paragraph 1 is admitted with regards to the Defendant entering in to an Agreement referred to in the Particulars of Claim ('the Agreement') with XXXXXXXXX

2. Paragraph 2 is denied with regards to the amount the Defendant owing monies to the Claimant and the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(i) Show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for.

(ii) Show the APR and interest used to calculate the amount claimed for.

3. Paragraph 3 is not admitted with regards to the Defendant defaulting on payments and the Claimant is put to strict proof to evidence this breach.

4. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

The claimant is also put to strict proof:-

(i) Show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim.

5. On the alternative, if the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

6. This defence will contend that under the Credit Consumer Act enables Section 140A and the court to make an order (under section 140B) if it determines that the relationship between the lender and the borrower arising out of a credit agreement is unfair to the borrower.

I will asseverate that under sec 140a CCA 2006 amendments CCA1974 that the assigned agreement was subject to an Unfair Relationship with XXXXXXXX due to extortionate interest applied.

Also that the agreement was breached by XXXXXXXX for failing to adhere to The UKCA guidelines once a payment plan arrangement is in place. The Claimant is "estopped" due to promissory estoppel the original Terms and Conditions agreed were varied.

7. Further, by reason of the fact that the Claimant was sent a Section 78 CCA 1974 request dated xxxxxxx and signed for by the claimant on xxxxxxxx the Claimant has yet to comply with this request and until such time the Agreement cannot be enforced against the Defendant without an order of the Court, until such time they comply with my request.

8. On receipt of the claim form the Defendant sent a CPR 31.14 request dated xxxxxxx for a copy of the credit agreement, default notice, notice of assignment and a statement of account showing how the amount claimed has been reached, which form the basis of this claim. This was signed for by the claimant on xxxxxxx.

9. By reason of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

Statement of Truth

I believe that the facts stated in this defence are true.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Other thread is

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?391771-County-Court-Claim-Form-Loan-From-HSBC-MKDP-LLP-Claimant&p=4245333#post4245333