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    • This is the other sign  parking sign 1a.pdf
    • 4 means that they need to name and then tell the people who will be affected that there has been an application made, what the application relates to (specificially "whether it relates to the exercise of the court’s jurisdiction in relation to P’s property and affairs, or P’s personal welfare, or to both) and what this application contains (i.e what order they want made as a result of it) 5 just means that teh court think it is important that the relevant people are notified 7 means that the court need more information to make the application, hence they have then made the order of paragraph 1 which requires the applicant to do more - this means the court can't make a decision with the current information, and need more, hence paragraph one of the order is for the applicant to do more. paragraph 3 of the order gives you the ability to have it set aside, although if it was made in january you are very late. Were you notiifed of the application or not?    
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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
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Ingeus - Advisor Harassment/Data Protection


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So I'm with the work programme and have been taking temp work with agencies for a few weeks here and there over the last few months. I sign off JSA, then do a rapid reclaim so that DWP know the situation. I don't always tell my Ingeus Advisor and over the last week he has been demanding to know all the work info which I didn't think was relevant for him to know. After bombarding me with phone calls and answer messages, he phoned one of the agencies and they gave him details of all the temp work I had done.

I would just like to know where I stand. How much information do I have to give to Ingeus, why did this agency give out all this personal information to a stranger on the phone. Also as I now look like a pillock with the one agency and will never get any temp work again through them, will he now call round the other agencies demanding information, basically killing my chances of temp work.

 

Long post, but would appreciate any advice thanks.

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You need to remove your consent. They ask so they can get payments for you working.

 

I agree and also tell them where to go if they contact you. This is nothing short of harrasment.

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Remove my consent from DWP contacting Ingeus?

 

Hiya Rob

 

You can remove your data consent which makes it illegal for Ingeus to contact any third party regarding you. (except DWP)... withdrawing consent is perfectly legal and within the DWP rules.

 

It also means that when you find a job, Ingeus cannot acquire the details they require from your employer, which means they cannot claim any money..

 

This in turn means Ingeus wont waste their time on you and they will see you less and less.

 

If you need a letter to with draw consent, let me know.. [email protected]

 

Nimitz

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So I'm with the work programme and have been taking temp work with agencies for a few weeks here and there over the last few months. I sign off JSA, then do a rapid reclaim so that DWP know the situation. I don't always tell my Ingeus Advisor and over the last week he has been demanding to know all the work info which I didn't think was relevant for him to know. After bombarding me with phone calls and answer messages, he phoned one of the agencies and they gave him details of all the temp work I had done.

I would just like to know where I stand. How much information do I have to give to Ingeus, why did this agency give out all this personal information to a stranger on the phone. Also as I now look like a pillock with the one agency and will never get any temp work again through them, will he now call round the other agencies demanding information, basically killing my chances of temp work.

 

Long post, but would appreciate any advice thanks.

 

Hiya Rob

 

Regarding your question "How much info do I have to give Ingeus?"

 

DWP rules state that you only have to give them your name and address, THAT'S ALL. You DO NOT have to give anything else ..NO email address, NO mobile no. NOTHING ELSE (unless you want to)

 

Nimitz

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Im in a similar situation, I was with ingeus but found myself some self employed work so I signed off and refused to give any information to ingeus as I didnt want them to benefit financially for something they hadnt done. Evetually the phone calls and emails from ingeus susbsided but my wife answered one this morning and so my advisor was able to speak to me. I still refused to give them any information to "update their records" and asked them to stop contacting me, they said they couldnt as they were contracted to do so by the DWP. Is there a way to legally stop them calling me as I now consider this harassment.

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Same as you Charlie Chester. Conscripted to WP July 2011, found work and signed off beginning of Dec 2011, ignored the minimal attempts of WP to engage with me i.e. appointment letters ignored, messages left on phone ignored. yesterday had message left on phone from wp that as I'd ignored there attempt to contact me my 'advisor' (who I've never met) would be coming round my house Saturday morning, or Sunday if Sat not convenient. Had to respond to this, left message with receptionist that 1. they wouldn't get an answer if they knocked on the door and 2. I'd call the police to have them removed from my premises. Upto this time no-one's come round but I don't want them to contact at all in any manner. Like you I'd like to know if there's any way I can stop them contacting me. I didn't sign the data protection waiver but haven't sent the 'do not consent' letter

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Same as you Charlie Chester. Conscripted to WP July 2011, found work and signed off beginning of Dec 2011, ignored the minimal attempts of WP to engage with me i.e. appointment letters ignored, messages left on phone ignored. yesterday had message left on phone from wp that as I'd ignored there attempt to contact me my 'advisor' (who I've never met) would be coming round my house Saturday morning, or Sunday if Sat not convenient. Had to respond to this, left message with receptionist that 1. they wouldn't get an answer if they knocked on the door and 2. I'd call the police to have them removed from my premises. Upto this time no-one's come round but I don't want them to contact at all in any manner. Like you I'd like to know if there's any way I can stop them contacting me. I didn't sign the data protection waiver but haven't sent the 'do not consent' letter

 

Hiya

 

Glad to see you did not sign the data waiver, excellent. As for the harassment from the advisor: write to the Ingeus manager informing him that you regard the phone calls and visits as harassment and that you will be writing to the DWP to complain, inform him also that you will report Ingeus to the police if there are any further visits or phone calls.

 

They lied to you...they are NOT contracted by DWP to "up date their records"

 

My friend had the same problem, once he informed them of the above actions they stopped harassing him.

 

With the benefit of hind sight...you are only obliged to give Ingeus your name and address...ONLY.... you do not have to give them your email address and telephone number..(unless you want to)

 

This link takes you to the Provider Guidance.."the rules of the game" created by the DWP, that Ingeus MUST follow.... it makes interesting reading, you may be surprised to know just how much power you have, but didn't know you had..lol

 

http://www.dwp.gov.uk/supplying-dwp/what-we-buy/welfare-to-work-services/provider-guidance/work-programme-provider.shtml

 

Nimitz

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Removal of consent letter here: http://consent.me.uk/workfareconsent/

Makes you completely worthless to them, you only then cost them money as they will never

get any outcome payment, can't contact anyone (work) etc..

 

Edit the letter to suit and get it sent in, I am taking some down to my local Ingeus on my next appointment and going to be an hour

early so I can hand them out, More people that do this the less money they make and finally drop the WP as its not making them any money.

 

George

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Hiya

 

Glad to see you did not sign the data waiver, excellent. As for the harassment from the advisor: write to the Ingeus manager informing him that you regard the phone calls and visits as harassment and that you will be writing to the DWP to complain, inform him also that you will report Ingeus to the police if there are any further visits or phone calls.

 

They lied to you...they are NOT contracted by DWP to "up date their records"

 

My friend had the same problem, once he informed them of the above actions they stopped harassing him.

 

With the benefit of hind sight...you are only obliged to give Ingeus your name and address...ONLY.... you do not have to give them your email address and telephone number..(unless you want to)

 

This link takes you to the Provider Guidance.."the rules of the game" created by the DWP, that Ingeus MUST follow.... it makes interesting reading, you may be surprised to know just how much power you have, but didn't know you had..lol

 

Nimitz

 

Thanks Nimitz

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Harassment is a criminal offence under several Acts :

Public Order Act 1986

Section 4A, inserted by the next mentioned Act, creates the offence of intentional harassment, alarm or distress.

Section 5 creates the offence of harassment, alarm or distress.

Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994

 

  • The Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994 only applies in England and Wales.

This Act provides means whereby intentional harassment, alarm or distress is a criminal offence. This makes all forms of harassment illegal, punishable on conviction by a six month jail term or a £5,000 fine. It is necessary to prove that the harasser's actions were intentional, and that someone was actually harmed by their actions.

Protection from Harassment Act 1997

Under this Act, it is an offence for a person to pursue a course of action which amounts to harassment of another individual, and that they know or ought to know amounts to harassment. Under this act the definition of harassment is behaviour which causes alarm or distress.

 

If the perpetrator is using the telephone, he/she would also fall foul of the telecommunications act and be in breach of T&C from their TelCo - Go to the Ocom page about harassment and lodge a complaint. In extreme cases, call the police. But to start with, a cease and desist letter should probably be sent pointing out the legislation they could be in breach of and remind them that proportional force could be used to remove an agent should they attempt a "home visit" without prior consent.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

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I trimmed a little bit out when I sent the letter but you can send it all. You just need to give it to Ingeus at the moment, as they're the ones bugging you, though once you get a regular job and sign off for good you can also tell the DWP not to pass on any info to Ingeus using the same rule (and also by just filling in your ES40 signing-off form that you've found work and the job will last more than 5 weeks - no need to give the DWP your employers details)

 

Tell Ingeus you would like a letter of receipt to be sent to you, saying they have received your withdrawal notice - or if you're posting it, send it recorded delivery addressed to the manager. If you hand it to them be sure and tell them that it becomes effective immediately. What they should then do is to place a note on your file so that anyone opening it will see immediately that they're no longer allowed to pass on your data or contact anyone.

 

You can also mention that you're going to ask the DWP for a SAR (Subject Access Request) which is your right and means that Ingeus would have to hand over copies of all documents, emails and phone call records relating to you during your time with them. (Even if you don't actually intend doing it, it's well worth telling them you will, as it will make them even more cautious in what they do :)

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(and also by just filling in your ES40 signing-off form that you've found work and the job will last more than 5 weeks - no need to give the DWP your employers details)

 

You don't even need to tell the DWP that you have found a job or give any reason for signing off. All that is required is a closure date for your claim.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 

No... you can't eat my brain just yet. I need it a little while longer.

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