Hi...

can anyone give me some advice about receiving commission for moving an old pension please?.

I have 2 good NHS pensions which I am very happy with and which will provide me with a good income when I retire.

I also have a Sun Life pension which was invested in the stock exchange and currently has a value of £27k.

I desperately need money for house repairs and mortgage arrears at the moment

and have been offered the chance to receive £5k for moving this pension to another provider.

The value of the pension will not go down and it will sit with the new provider until i retire and I will receive 5% annual commission hereafter.

The company is Artemis Funding (also signs itself as Artemis packaging).

I just need to know if this is legal and is it a safe thing to do.

I realise that it is not ideal...but than my situation is less than ideal.

I don't have an option for borrowing and £5k would make a huge difference to me at the present time.

Thankyou for your help

Hello there. I don't know Artemis offhand, I'll have a look in a mo.

What have you had in writing from them please? Also, are you over age 55?

My best, HB

Hello again.

Do you mean Artemis fund managers? If you don't, the complete company name could be useful.

HB

Hi....thanks for this. I am 42 years old. I would be really grateful for your advice. This is the email I received today

Further to our telephone conversation we confirm your interest in obtaininga cash facility. This could be obtained by transferring your pension into aSelf Invested Personal Pension Plan where a commission is paid by thereceiving investment company, details of which will be provided by PrimeBusiness Ltd the administrators.

There is a choice of investments, detailsof which will be provided by the administrators and an Independent FinancialAdviser who will make contact with you once your transfer documents arereceived.In order to process your case we will require the current transfer value ofyour pension scheme/s and the necessary discharge forms from your currentpension provider/s.

Also, to comply with the Data Protection Act and moneylaundering regulations in force, it is a legal requirement that we aresupplied with the following documents.One document from the following:.. Valid passport: Certified copy and not original... Valid Photo card Driving License (full or provisional) notoriginal. One document from the following:.. Valid Driving Licence (if not used above).. Current Council Tax letter or statement**.. Current Bank statement, Credit Card statement issued by a regulatedfinancial sector firm in the UK/EU but not printed from the internet*.. Utility bill, but not one printed from the internet***Dated within the last 12 months.*Dated within the last 3 months.

Please note that we require photocopies of the above documents certified byyour accountant, solicitor, bank manager or an appropriately recognisedperson. Please do not send original passports or driving licences. It isimportant that the person signing off the document must include their fullname, address, occupation and qualifications on the copy they havecertified. Alternatively, you may also go to most larger Post Offices whofor a small fee will certify your documents.

We will confirm receipt and forward your enquiry onto the schemeadministrators Prime Business Ltd who will deal with your enquiry. We lookforward to receiving the completed forms and documents requested at yourearliest convenience

Please post the documents to Artemis Packaging, 5 Greenwood, 8 Wessex Road,Poole, Dorset, BH14 8BGKind regards Artemis Packaging5 Greenwood8 Wessex RoadPooleDorsetBH14 8BG T: 01202 463442m: 07830 771131 e:

Disclaimer: Artemis Packaging does not provide financial advice and onlycollects information which is then passed onto the scheme administrators.

Thank you for that.

I don't know much about transferring to a SIPP, but I would expect it to be subject to having independent advice, as the email suggests.

I don't quite understand the relationship between Artemis and Prime and will look at this. I also wonder why they need all the documents at this stage.

But it sounds as it Artemis are more like introducers who then stand back after you are in touch with Prime. Can you tell us any more about where the £5k comes from and how it is 'commission' please? I thought that was paid to people like professional introducers, but I could be wrong.

I would also want to know how much of your fund would be used as costs for the transfer, or whether there is a fee involved for the advice and admin.

Have you spoken to Sun Life about this at all? They may offer you advice on alternative schemes with their company.

HB

Hi..thanks for the reply. I did speak to Sun Life but they have not offered my anything which involved the payment of a commission. Just a number of options for transferring the fund elsewhere. I have not heard of this type of commission before...which is why I am asking the questions really. This is an extra pension (which I had totally forgotten I had!) and I am just looking to see if there is any way i can benefit from it now......without losing out too much. This seems to be a good solution....but I cannot find other companies who do it and it makes we worry that it is not legal. I understand that it may not be best for the pension....but my situation is in need of help now!. I have 3 other pensions which I am very happy with and do not intend to touch.Thanks again. All help gratefully received x

I can't find either of these companies at the moment, don't know if I'm missing something.

HB

The £5k is apparently commission paid for moving the pension to a new fund???

I couldn't find them either!

Hi..thanks for the reply. I did speak to Sun Life but they have not offered my anything which involved the payment of a commission. Just a number of options for transferring the fund elsewhere. I have not heard of this type of commission before...which is why I am asking the questions really. This is an extra pension (which I had totally forgotten I had!) and I am just looking to see if there is any way i can benefit from it now......without losing out too much. This seems to be a good solution....but I cannot find other companies who do it and it makes we worry that it is not legal. I understand that it may not be best for the pension....but my situation is in need of help now!. I have 3 other pensions which I am very happy with and do not intend to touch.Thanks again. All help gratefully received x

I understand your concern and I think you're right to query it. My own concern is that you can't normally touch a pension until you are 55+ and as I mentioned before and you've also spotted, where the money will come from to pay you the £5k and fund the costs of transferring.

Re-reading the email, it sounds as if you agree to the transfer without receiving advice, which isn't normal with a complex transaction.

How have you come to be in contact with Artemis please?

HB

Hi...I am not accessing the pension at all...and this has been explained to me. I would be receiving a commission for moving the pension into a SIPP and leaving it there with a 5% commission until I retire and can access it. That is my understanding. I found Artemis on the web when I was looking to see if I had any options with this. I soon found out that I couldn't access any pensions before retirement age but Artemis said that this was not a problem and I could still access approximately £5k by doing this.I would do this in a moment....if I was sure that it was legit! :-)I have no experience of this sort of thing and am just worried that I would not get anything and lose the pension to boot!

Right, I asked my OH who has dealings with pensions.

He tells me this is called pensions liberation and that the Pensions Regulator had published a warning about them. If you follow this link to their website, the first thing you see is a purple link [page 2 of the first box] about pensions liberation fraud.

http://www.thepensionsregulator.gov.uk/

HB

In case future caggers view this thread and the Regulator's website has changed, this is the first part of the information.

What is pension liberation fraud?

Pension liberation also known as ‘pension loans’ and ‘pension [problem]s’ is a transfer of a scheme member's pension savings to an arrangement that will allow them to access their funds before the age 55. But accessing pension savings before minimum pension age is only possible in rare cases, like terminal illness. This activity can be fraudulent where individuals are not informed, or are misled, as to the consequences of entering into one of these schemes.

An increasing number of companies are targeting savers claiming that they can help them take their pension cash early. Pension liberation can result in tax charges and penalties of more than half the value of a member’s pension savings, and those being targeted are usually not being told about the potential tax implications. This is in addition to high charges, typically 20 to 30% for entering into one of these arrangements and high risk investments for the remaining pension savings.

Hi..thankyou for the information. However, I have asked if this is either a pension loan or a pension liberation scheme and been told categorically that it is not. I have also been told that the company used is regulated by the FSA. Are you sure that this is what it is???

Hi..thankyou for the information. However, I have asked if this is either a pension loan or a pension liberation scheme and been told categorically that it is not. I have also been told that the company used is regulated by the FSA. Are you sure that this is what it is???

I can't be sure, no, but pension loans are not common, I'm told. What have you had in writing about it, does it shed any light on what they're doing?

As you can't normally access a pension before age 55 unless you're terminally ill, as the link says, I don't understand how they plan to raise the money.

Did you read the case studies? I thought a couple of them sounded rather like what is being proposed to you, but you have spoken with the people and seen the paperwork.

HB

The other place for you to get advice is TPAS, who have a link via the regulator's website. They are independent and offer free advice. They have a good name.

HB

Thankyou. I really appreciate your help..........

May I ask what you plan to do now, Elizabeth?

I would expect an FSA regulated adviser to do you a detailed written report with all the details of the plan and information about any downside like tax charges if they would apply. If they can't explain how they plan to get this cash to you and what the cost to you or reduction in your pension fund would be, I would be very cautious.

CAG has other forums, maybe you could ask for tips on how to deal with your mortgage provider, for example?

HB

Artemis Packaging, 5 Greenwood, 8 Wessex Road,Poole, Dorset, BH14 8BG

Don't know if it makes a difference to your decision, but that address appears to be a residential flat rather than a business. See 2nd entry here http://www.rightmove.co.uk/house-prices/detail.html?country=england&locationIdentifier=OUTCODE^187&searchLocation=BH14&outcode=BH14&year=20&locality=Poole&streetName=Wessex+Road

Good spot, Migster.

HB

Hmmm.....not looking good is it?. I have followed your advice and emailed TPAS. I did look at the website you suggested but the big difference is that this is not being sold as a pension loan or any other attempt to release funds from a pension. It is very much a commission. But I am not going to do anything until I have some more evidence so thankyou,

BBC Radio 4's The Report is doing a 30 minute programme on pension liberation on Thursday 21st March at 20.00.

Elizabeth, I'm still trying to fathom out how they can pay a commission of that amount on a transfer. It has to come out of your fund, doesn't it? I could have missed something, but it's a new one to me.

And if you want to check the authorisation of an advisor, there is a search facility on the FSA website, or they have a helpline for you to ring.

HB

Thankyou HB...really appreciate your help

You're welcome, I just hate the thought of you losing money through this.

How's it going with you, is there any news your end? I don't know if you've heard from TPAS , I know they don't necessarily respond quickly to emails. Sometimes it's faster to ring, if you can.

HB

This seems too good to be true, and I can't help but wonder why more people don't do it. If your NHS pension is based on final salary I would urge you to think long and hard before moving it.

In the past I've looked at moving private pensions, and in every case it would have cost me - except one and on that occasion it later turned out to have been missold.

If something seems too good to be true, it probably is.