Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.
The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights
a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.
Had my mobile stolen abroad recently, when I was pickpocketed.
I reported it to the relevant authorities immediately in Brussels and phoned vodafone immediately on my return to the UK the next day to cancel the phone.
I have now been sent a phenomenal bill by vodafone.
Am I liable to pay any of this bill? As phone calls aren't itemised anymore, I don't know how much of the bill is pre-cancelling my phone and how much is post-cancelling it. Have tried to get this info from customer services, but they disappear off the line for so long to go and check and then my call is terminated before tehy return.
Can I make Vodafone with all their billions, write off the whole of this debt? What is the best approach if anyone has been here before?
Ultimately, I reported it to the relevant authorities the minute I knew it was stolen.
I was in Belgium for an operation and had no internet access or anything similar, nor was I in a fit state to do anything further than contact the Belgian police while recovering from anaesthetic. I had no idea what Vodafone's number was abroad, and trying to make my self understood to other people in what I was trying to do was hard enough even with the Police out there.
You will be liable for the calls as you didn't report it to vodafone, so they couldn't have blocked your phone as they didn't know it had been stolen.
You could ask for an itemised bill, but I would imagine this would just confirm that the calls were made up to the time you contacted them, at which point they would have blocked it.
Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.
"Some people say The Stig chews on spark plugs and drifts while walking. Some say he is terrified of ducks, and that there is an airport in Russia named after him. All we know is that he is really barracad from The Consumer Action Group" - Jeremy Clarkson (allegedly)
Why are your call not itemised anymore? I'm on 3 and mine are!
I QUESTION THEREFORE I AM!!
Unfortunately i'm not an expert in any given field legally and my advice and that of the Consumer Action Group and the Bank Action Group is given without prejudice and without liability so please if in any doubt whatsoever seek help from an insured qualified professional. Contents of my posts are purely my own personal opinions and not condoned or endorsed in any way, shape or form by CAG. Thank you!
vodafone have stopped itemising them - ironically my bills have been £30 a month more since!
I think everyone is right you cant ask them to write off the bill if they didnt know the phone was stolen, maybe write to them and explain the situation and see if they can compromise...do you have insurance - as you reported it to the police you may be covered with that
People who haven't made mistakes, haven't made anything!
Also, as a seperate issue I would be demanding itemised bills as a matter of course or else how do you know what you're being charged for?
Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.
"Some people say The Stig chews on spark plugs and drifts while walking. Some say he is terrified of ducks, and that there is an airport in Russia named after him. All we know is that he is really barracad from The Consumer Action Group" - Jeremy Clarkson (allegedly)
So they charge you to tell you how much they are charging you?
What an idiotic system!
Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.
"Some people say The Stig chews on spark plugs and drifts while walking. Some say he is terrified of ducks, and that there is an airport in Russia named after him. All we know is that he is really barracad from The Consumer Action Group" - Jeremy Clarkson (allegedly)
...i was on the phone to Voda as i typed - they told me as i have registered online i can view itemised stuff there - they just post a summary to inform me of how much i owe - have cheacked and sure enough its online - try there under my vodafone!
People who haven't made mistakes, haven't made anything!
Why are your call not itemised anymore? I'm on 3 and mine are!
I'm not sure; they've stopped doing it for some reason...
Have been with vodafone for 7 years now and have been a very good customer of theirs. Do you think that this would count for anything?
Can I threaten to leave them?
Clutching at straws slightly as I don't know what else to do and I can't afford the massive bill - my bills never go above £40 absolute max, usually low £30s and suddenly it's hit a massive hike into the hundreds I imagine for the first time in 7 years and while my phone was abroad (I got cut off just as Customer Service were giving me the worst, but they asked if I was sitting down, so I guess it's pretty hideous)
If this were a credit card company, they would do a security check immediately there was abnormal use on the card, especially abroad....
OOOh - that big? They're anti fraud software should have kicked in LONG before it got to that amount. They are within their rights to a degree (which is why theft insurance is useful - not for the phone, but the risk of being billed). Against this is why was your handset not PIN locked? This too protects you if the phone is switched off then back on - anyone reading this would be well advised to enter and activate a PIN 1 to prevent this happening.
Back at vodafone, I think they need to explain why the phone wasn't blocked for unusual calling patterns before they acted on your phone stolen call.
My phone is PIN locked, just it was fully blinking charged when I had it nicked and they obviously didn't switch it off, just kept on phoning or downloading or buying porn or whatever it was.
Criminy, how does one run up a bill that large in such a short space of time?
I'm getting very tearful now as I'm frightened I'm going to be threatened with legal action or something awful, and I really just have no way of paying.
I need my mobile for work as I'm self-employed - it's a bit of a lifeline for me and I can't be without it for that reason.
I will use your anti-fraud argument; if anyone else has something that I might use as ammunition in my letter to vodafone that I must write first thing tomorrow, then all contributions very gratefully received...
Console yourself that you did everything your reasonably could do under the circumstances, and - worst case scenario - you should not be forced to pay the full cost claimed (including roaming markups) due to the inequeties of charging. There IS room for the network to negotiate - especially by foregoing on their profit element. As to how the bill could reach that much, I'd estimate that the calls made whilst roamed would have been in the £300-400 ball park (exluding any revenue earning chatlines etc) once you get the itemised bill you'll be able to check this. If it was wall-to-wall premium nubers, ANY network should have had provisions in place to knock this phone off much earlier. The fact you were roaming triples the costs anyway. Providing you have been seen to have acted in good faith (SIM lock etc, calling once loss discovered) it would be difficult for any judge not to be sympathetic and decide accordingly. Negotiate hard based on the lax security on the network, and take it from there. Reasonable care is a two-way street!
Okonski, you are being so helpful to me, thank you...
I actually had a thing called vodafone Passport on my account which caps calls while roaming to 75p for up to an hour's call. Though I imagine your point about Premium Nos isn't covered by this.
Because I have been ill recently, (I ws actually in Belgium for an operation), I'm currently on JSA of £57.45 a week, so you can imagine this elephantine bill is quite scary...
I have done some research and rung vodafone again this morning and a manager will call me back within 48 hours.
Am going to try and get proof that I reported it as missing abroad and see if that counts for anything.
Also am about to check if I am covered for liability on my household contents section of my insurance.
Any further gems that occur to folk, greatly appreciated once more...
Many thanks for your appreciation (click the scales above to add to my reputation!). The fact you also were a Passport member should weigh heavily in your favour, as clearly you were doing all you could to act responsibly whilst away from the UK. Hopefully, the manager will take your concerns onboard and realise you didn't sell your handset for a quick £50 just to have someone else defraud them.
As to your house insurance, the section that ypou need to look at is Public Liability, as the theft and its aftermath impacted on a third party (vodafone). They still have a duty of care to you (as a network) and if it is found that your mobile was making premium calls to Belgian chatlines, clearly it wasn't you making them!).
If you feel things are not going your way, do get back to me has I have a number of contacts in Newbury who might be able to assist you further, but it might not come to that!
On the face of it, this would be correct *however* all cases are taken on their merits and the circumstances also help - the fact you went there for medical treatment, and not on a drunken orgy of the Belgian chocolate eaters appreciation society (!), it all helps. Taken in isolation, a £1,700 phone bill can make your pulse rate quicken somewhat, but the first thing is to see what vodafone say, and after that plan accordingly. (I've been accused of being rather agressive in my pursuit of fairness for forum members, but I'd still like to know what their fraud prevention software was doing when your bill went over £500.. offline?). Hang in there!
Have been fortunate to get some work away from home this week. While away, vodafone have cut off my phone until I set up a payment plan to repay the £1,700 bill.
Regarding their anti-fraud software, when I pressed them on it, apparantly they don't have such a thing! In fact, they only deigned to send me a text message when the bill reached £1,200 asking me to contact them, which was obviously completely pointless as the phone wasn't in my possession. It is not company policy to phone the phone owner, just to text them. Subsequently the bill continued to rocket to the dizzy heights of over £1,700 until I got back to the UK and reported it. I'm curious as to how high they would have let the bill get without freezing the account. Their security seems to be paper thin - I suppose it can be if you ultimately charge the phone owner, in fact, it could be said to be quite a nice little earner for them!
Have asked if they can treat the two things as a separate matter - ie I'll wrangle over the £1,700 while still paying my regular monthly bill, but the manager I spoke to refused. And maintained that I will have to pay the entire amount.
I've been told that the costs to vodafone are minimal, as their main costs are linked to erecting masts in the first place and that once this is done it's all profit. Can someone say if that is correct? I don't want to walk on dodgy ground with this in my letter to Vodafone and Otelo (the Ombudsman).
If anyone has any insider information on Vodafone or has had a similar experience and is happy to share it, then please do so...
Mobile stolen abroad, thief ran up huge bill.
immediately on my return to the UK the next day to cancel the phone.
Reply With Quote
Re: Mobile stolen abroad, thief ran up huge bill.
Originally Posted by cillitbanger
Re: Mobile stolen abroad, thief ran up huge bill.
