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Help........!! Sigma claim form - and another M&S charge card converted to a CC.


Abby25
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Hi all,

 

Claim form recd today from a solicitors today, on behalf of the asignee

- they are requesting payment of not the whole amount of the disputed account, (but to save me higher fees, as they have explained to me !),

 

they are only asking under the County Court Claim form, for interest of 8% on the debt since its purchased.

 

I have refused, and reiterated my dispute ... but wondered heard anything like this before ?

 

What does this imply ?

 

As I think they know its bogus,

 

hoping I'll pay the reduced amount, and therefore admit liability,

 

they tried to get me to do over the phone ..u

 

A

Edited by Abby25
had to input manual para splitters
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Hi B,

 

No its not BC .... what does splitting the claim mean ... this is my first venture into court forms ... and whilst I think I know, I just want to make sure,

 

Abs x

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By the way, they have agreed to have the claim "stayed" until they can investigate my dispute with the OC further ... do I need to do anything with these papers in the meantime ? ,

 

Or just keep them in case they decide they want to take a punt on the interest requested ?,

 

Abs

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No I know it's not him, but this is his MO, he used to go to court and obtain a ccj on one part of the claim, then the next thing you knew he was taking you back to court to obtain another ccj for the other part of the claim....at least that was how I understood it, either way I know if you informed the DJ of this it was frowned upon and BC rarely won.

 

Court forms are out of my depth sorry....

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Anyone on the forum who can give a bit of advice on them BB ? I just need to know whether to lodge my defence on line, just in case they don't stay them, or accept that they will not be pursing whilst they "review" the matter ... which they said may involve "selling it back to the OC" .... !!! I did giggle at that !!

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Who is the OC and who is taking you to court over what?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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H there,

 

The OC is MS (store to credit card) - sold to Sigma with HL Sols - seeking interest claim from date of purchase.

 

Have agreed to stay the claim (nhampton court bulk, I am in nwest, until they have spoken to OC, and looked at the docs, inc docs I am going to send them illustrating the dispute. Upon which they will decide to pursue or refer back to the OC.

 

I know they have no where to go with this, the cca for the ccard, was actually for the original storecard, notwithstanding the fact that even if that were permissible, the CCA for the store card is an application form, with no prescribed terms within its execution. This was argued with MS who initially argued they could be located within the t&cs (totally sep doc), then eventually just stopped responding when challenged on the various points they cited, inc the fact that they claim the OFT were perfectly happy for them to send out unsolicited CCards, with just a modifying t&cs.

 

But don't want to end up with a CCJ for these costs by not formally lodging a defence, just in case they don't/forget to stay the claim

 

Abs

Edited by Abby25
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so this was a store card upgraded to a credit card?

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yep .. already know about this, and this has already been argued with MS (even before the above court case). But they still sold it to Sigma - and HL have still sent the claim form.

 

Now i've told HL about this and as I say they have agreed to stay .. but in the meantime my question is should I still respond to the court claim papers or what ?

 

Abs

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IMHO yes

 

never believe anything a fake/tame dca solicitor says

you could call the court too on monday and check if a stay HAS been registered though i think....

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX ... I'm pretty good on the enforceability of CCAs, and try to help others where I can ... but this is my very first episode with court papers ... and I really value your help.

 

So you would suggest doing the online procedure, and calling the court to ascertain if a stay has been submitted by HL ?

 

Or, complete them longhand, inc all my defence docs and send that into the court ? Also calling to see the stay has been submitted by HL (or do you submit your defence on line too ?).

 

Sorry, I am a complete novice at this ... so would welcome your guidance.

 

Abs x

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TBH i've as much idea as you

legal is not my game

 

you dont need to do both written & online.

 

i dont think there is any real rush to put in your defense yet is there?

 

hold on that

 

but i'd call the court on monday and MAKE sure a stay HAS been notifed t the court.

 

its not been unknown for them to pull this staying stunt before

to get judgement by default.

 

be careful!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Oh .. the buggers !!

 

I have just read the docs PROPERLY - and I can acknowledge on line, and then have 28 days (I think) to submit a formal defence (by which time it should be stayed, and withdrawn by them, once they see the cut of my jib !! LOL

 

Will keep you up to date on this ... with thanks again ...

 

Abs x

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Ok, acknowledged on line today, which is well within svc time as dated - this gives me 28 days to submit a defence, by which time they should have stayed, have my letter detailing the dispute issues and why the account is unenforceable - which hopefully will lead to a withdrawal of their claim.

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I didn't contest jurisdiction of the court - as I read that means that you don't believe the court has authority to deal, and is not related to where any hearing will be held, which I believe will be the nearest court to me ?

 

Did I do the right thing (which hopefully will be academic once they see the basis of the dispute - non-compliant store card agreement (which is actually an application form), provided as a CCA in respect of the credit card it was changed to (unsolicited).

 

The OCs original defence, when challenged on this, was to say that a set of modified t&cs were issued with the card, and that therefore means that the signed CCA for the original store card (as I say no pres terms in that doc in any event), stands for the credit card too (the modified t&cs showing all the changes).

 

What a LOAD of old carp !! Anyways, as I say they were told this, and then the account was sold on .............. and we now of course have the recent court case to throw into the mix. I also have a very defective DN to boot !!!

 

Abs

Edited by Abby25
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Hi Abby very interesting thread- I'm one of quite a few others it sounds like in the same boat on this one.

 

I'm wondering what tack to take on this one...communicating directly to the dca seems sensible as they will no doubt stay once they realise they are going to be contested on this one. In fact I strongly suspect all Sigma have on the vast majority of people recieving these claim forms is nothing more than an account number and an address- and after the debacle earlier in the year, apparently they couldn't even get the last bit of that right.

 

My only reservation about communicating with Sigma outside of court procedure now, is the risk messing up the SB clock. I know you put on the 'I do not acknowledge any debt etc' but I've always believed total silent running is the best approach in most cases :-) Would reminding the dca that the account is in dispute be construed as an acknowledgement of it? I dunno. Probably not. Any views from you peeps would be useful though :)

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Hi ...... If they aren't contacting you, let sleeping dogs lie .... and the SB clock keep ticking. (but to answer your Q - yes, as long as your correspondence contains the heading that you do no acknowledge the SB clock is safe).

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  • 2 weeks later...

Claim for a partial claim of interest (£299.99) since assignement to Sigma SPV (HL Legal are dealing) !!

 

Issued Northampton Bulk, on 10 July 2012, recd Friday 13 July (don't say it !!!), acknowledged on 14 July 2012. I actually rang them on 13 July 2012, and spoke to a manger, advised him what the dispute status of the alleged account was, etc.

 

He advised that he was going to get the claim stayed until they could review the docs (after trying to get me to admit the debt !) - following which they may sell it back to the OC !

 

Now this is where I thnk I may have made a boo boo .... I (to be extra helpful and a bit of a know all I suspect !!), have just yesterday sent a copy of the agreement provided to me by Marks (which was for a store card, then converted to a credit card) - to show how carp it was. And also a copy of my original letter to them following their pay up, we know of no dispute standard letter, saying it was not acknowledged and disputed, and the basis of dispute. With a covering letter FAO the manager, stating that upon the enclosed docs, and proof being provided of an unenforceable debt, any further pursuance would be cited as frivilious and vexatious and robustly defended, to which I demanded that their claim be immediately withdrawn. Any issues with what I have done .... have a thrown a clanger ..... I provided what I expect M&S would provide them with, whom they stated they were to contact for a copy file of the account and dispute ......

 

Which discusses the fact that a CC store app (with no presc terms), can not be utilisised for an unsoliicted CCard - furthermore to rely upon the storecard CCA and alleged revised T&Cs, which I DID NOT receive, in place of a new CCA, is very bogus as per Reg 7 of CCA84 modifying agreements, which demands a new CCA and T&Cs be issued under a modified agreement (but I haven't mentioned I also have a VERY duff DN to boot !).

 

Anyhoo, I have acknowledged on line and also phoned the court. They have told me that there is a 2 week backlog on correspondence, so the stay rerquest may not be processed until 1st week in Aug. I have until 13 August to submit a defence.

 

Do I also need to issue the CPR (is it 13 ?), or do I just submit my defence if not stayed by beg of August ?

 

Also, has anyone a template store card to credit card, duff DN, defence I could borrow ..... as this is my first court adventure, and a little un-nerving when you don't know the protocal etc ... so ALL comments and guidance very welcome ... !

 

Abs x

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If its best practice to issue CPR - is this correct ... ??

 

Dear Sirs

 

Re: Sigma SPV 1 Limited v xxxxxxxx: xxxxxxxxx

 

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On 13 July 2012 I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the Northampton County Court .

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court, in which I indicate my intention to fully contest all of your claim.

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of:-

 

CCA regulated agreement pertaining to Sxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the originals should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

Notice of assignment

 

Default notice

 

Termination notice

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the documents I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case.

 

You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any versions to include an obligation to recover and preserve such versions which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this action will not be necessary however, and look forward to your earliest response.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Abs x

Edited by Abby25
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Abby25 I have started your own thread as not to complicate Cosalts.You can still subscribe to that thread to follow the advice given.

 

Regards

 

Andy

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Hey Thanks Andy !

 

I do have my own M&S thread, where I published this, but I was told that it would be best to have it looked the legal thread ..... didn't mean hijack (know its very annoying to the OP when that happens). I will trundle over to my new thread on this.

 

Abs xx

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