Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

£19.99 + £1.50 (P&P)

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 10
FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 185
  1. #21
    Basic Account Holder dorishaslop Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    148

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    damned if you do and damned if you don't eh ??


  2. #22
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Hi all,
    Yet another update.....

    Yesterday I emailed the person who had sent the letter mentioned in my post (19) asking for the written confirmation regarding my assessment appt being cancelled due to their inability to provide recording equipment and as of yet haven't even received an auto reply in acknowledgment, which IMO is totally unprofessional and unbecoming of an agency paid millions to act on the DWP's behalf.

    So this morning at 8:00am I was on the phone to the ESA. After going through the new automated phone system they have, which they say you only have to go through one time after giving a memorable date and choosing a pin number to use for future telephone contact, which I may add is not right as I have done the whole 4 min episode 2 times now, I was on hold listening to that abysmal music for another further 31 mins I spoke to an operator explaining that I had contacted ATOS regarding my assessment being recorded and went through all contact that I had had with them, I voiced my concern that they had failed to provide firm written confirmation that my appt for 3rd July had been cancelled due to their lack of being able to provide the service that I am entitled to. He stated there was nothing they could do, which I already knew but I asked him to make a record of my call as I wanted them to know that the cancellation was not due to me being a 'No show', which could cause them to stop payments.

    I then phoned ATOS to be told that the appt had been cancelled and so had the one for the 17th July????????????? I have never had any contact regarding one on the 17th July..... I asked again for written confirmation of both cancellations stating the reason why only to be told they don't do that. IMO they may try to make it look like I have cancelled the appts for no valid reason which would lead to sanctions. I fully agree with you Worried33, but I am not going to let this lie........

    I am going to contact my MP who just happens to be a Tory and provide him with all the information I have on this matter and see if he has the b**** to address the problem, I am not holding my breath.... not that I have a lot to hold.

    Odset ~I agree someone somewhere needs to start some form of action but it can't be done by one person alone.........


  3. #23
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Just a little add on to my last post.

    I am also covering my conversations with recorded letters to ATOS and DWP.


  4. #24
    Gold Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    debt4get Informative debt4get Informative debt4get Informative debt4get Informative debt4get Informative debt4get's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Feb 2008
    I am in
    debt
    Posts
    3,877

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    informing your mp is going to in my experience be less than useless....and mines a labour man...he was totally useless...unable and unwilling to get involved....they are going to remove this 'right' due to lack of demand....yet nowhere in any phone callsicon or letters do they happen to mention that 'you can have the session recorded' we have to keep pushing for this to be allowed, but i fear that it may soon be removed


  5. #25
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    osdset Informative osdset Informative osdset Informative osdset Informative osdset's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    May 2010
    I am in
    St Ratford
    Posts
    1,527

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    The more I think about it the more it seem obvious that ATOS would do all in their power to subvert recording assessments, it is totally not in their best interests.

    While the current system remains ATOS can go about the business of benefit denial behind closed doors with no checks or balances applied, the DWP who seem to hang on ATOS's every word are happy to stand back and wash their hands, if evidence of malpractice is brought to light via a recording then the government as embodied by the DWP are duty bound to act surely?

    This would not be good news for all concerned except the injured party, Grayling is happy to pay lip service to recordings for the moment, once enough evidence has been presented by ATOS/DWP to the effect that no one has to date taken up the offer, it will be withdrawn due to lack of interesticon.



    Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges

    Being poor is like being a Pelican. No matter where you look, all you see is a large bill.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  6. #26
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    This is the email I am going to send to my MP...... if anyone has anything that they think I should change or add please say

    Dear Mr Ollerenshaw,

    I am hoping that you can help with this situation.

    I requested that my review assessment be recorded as is my right according to the announcement made by Chris Grayling in a private members debate on 12/02/2012, on my questionnaire sent by ATOS. When I received my appt for 03/07/2012 there was no mention of it being recorded. I rang the appointments line at ATOS only to be told it had not been requested, the ATOS employee said he would email the relevant dept and that they would be in touch. I waited a couple of days and rang at the end of last week to check if the appointment would be recorded as the date is getting closer. I was given the telephone number of the relevant department who I contacted immediately to be told that the equipment needed was not available on that date and that it would probably be August before it was, I asked if the appointment for 03/07/2012 had been cancelled and was told it was, I then asked for written confirmation and was told a letter would be sent.

    I received a letter dated 20/06/2012 which in my opinion stated the opposite of what I had been told it reads:

    Dear Mrs xxxxx,


    I have received your request to obtain an audio recording of your medical assessment.
    Unfortunately we are unable to provide this service at present.
    Therefore your appointment on 3rd July 2012 will not be audio recorded.

    Yours sincerely,



    xxxxx xxxxx


    This was the only information in the envelope I was not furnished with a reason for ATOS being unable to record the appointment or any options open to me, it basically says you will attend the appointment and we are not recording it.

    I rang them straight away and informed them that I wished that the appointment be recorded and asked why the appointment had not been cancelled to be told that it had and again I asked for written confirmation of the cancellation being made due to their inability to provide a service that are supposed to, as I did not want it to be put down as the 1 and only cancellation that I am allowed to make, before sanctions are made against my claim.

    I had not received the requested letter yesterday and as the date of the appointment is early next week I emailed the person who had sent the above letter yet again requesting confirmation, I have not as yet received even an acknowledgement of receipt. So this morning I rang the ESA and informed them of the problems and failure of ATOS to deal with the matter and asked them to put on record that I had not cancelled the appointment. I then rang ATOS and asked again if the appointment had been cancelled to be told yes and so had the one they had made for 17/07/2012, which surprised me as I had no idea about that appointment. Again I asked for written verification of the cancellations, I was told no they don't do that.

    There are flaws in the benefit system, one of them being these assessments. In my first assessment I was deemed fit for work in 3 months, the report was full of contradictions, wrong information, missed evidence that the assessor was furnished with, I appealed the decision and had it overturned before it reached Tribunal and put in WRAG. When I got my second questionnaire I filled it in and sent in medical evidence of my condition from my health professionals. I suffer from Rheumatoid arthritis and COPD, neither condition curable only manageable with medication. My mobility issues have worsened, I still have fatigue issues etc, so knowing this I am surprised that I have to waste government resources going through this process again. Hence the reason for asking for my assessment to be recorded.

    The questions I would like answered are:
    1. Why it is acceptable for ATOS to refuse to provide written confirmation of appointments that can not be carried out due to them not being able to provide a service that the Government have openly announced they will for anyone who requests it?
    2. Why have the government/DWP/ATOS not publicized the availability of Audio recording within the media? They are very quick to make use of the media to bring bad light on benefit claimants, but have failed to do this in this case.
    3. Why do the DWP/ATOS not include the option of audio recording in the medical questionnaire and leaflet WCA AL1C 04/11 which is enclosed with the assessment appointments?
    4. Is there truth in the rumour that the right to have a WCA audio recorded is going to be withdrawn in the near future? If so why?
    5. Why do the Government think that an ATOS "Healthcare Professional" has the knowledge and common sense to know what a claimant is capable of doing more than the professional NHS Doctors, Consultants etc that deal with them on a regular basis?


    I look forward to a reply at your earliest convenience.


  7. #27
    Basic Account Holder Slatted Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    May 2012
    Posts
    411

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Personally I do ask a lot of questions but find that the answers keep changing so even if I could afford to keep ringing, cannot guarantee I would get the correct answers...I have lost count of the times I have been given the runaround too!!

    It may be apathy on behalf of some but low self esteem (amongst many things) may accompany being on benefits and that is not exactly condusive to wanting to keep ringing and asking...neither is the phone bill or the cost of post now!!


  8. #28
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    worried33 Novitiate worried33 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,395

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by debt4get View Post
    informing your mp is going to in my experience be less than useless....and mines a labour man...he was totally useless...unable and unwilling to get involved....they are going to remove this 'right' due to lack of demand....yet nowhere in any phone callsicon or letters do they happen to mention that 'you can have the session recorded' we have to keep pushing for this to be allowed, but i fear that it may soon be removed
    My MP will send letters but she makes it clear in the letters she sends the concern is mine and not hers. That then puts a lot less clout to those letters as she is then not putting her status behind it.


  9. #29
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    TBH I don't really expect much but thought I would see what happens, I am at a stage like reallymadwoman is where I will go all out to get this brought forward.....


  10. #30
    Basic Account Holder amianne Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    185

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by worried33 View Post
    It was a last resort. Again you make assumptions, not everyone has family around them to help. The fact you dont understand also makes me wonder why you even commenting.

    How many MPs would disagree with this.

    DWP refusing to provide a fax number to send in documents.
    It isn't normal to provide a fax number. It isn't normal to provide an email address either.
    Most people (and it is policy) that documents are sent in through the post.

    DWP refusing to cooperate on making a new appointment.
    I am not entirely sure what you mean by this. If you are talking about an appointment relating to an assessment, would that not be the responsibilty of ATOS? If however you are talking about making an appointment for a re-assessment following a deterioration in your health, that should be carried out via the post or telephone with the DWP - BDC.

    DWP refusing to forward call to BDC.
    BDC is the DWP in all cases relating to ESA.

    DWP reading out wrong postcode tothe MP then claiming it was never wrong. I wonder how many MP's would say that was right.
    Mistakes do happen!

    MPs even have direct lines to the DWP because they there to help with these sort of situations its also why welfare rights will advise people to goto their MPs when normal channels fail to work. You seemeither misled or deliberatly intimidating to make things seem what they are not. The fact you refuse to believe the 70% success rate means you dont really have an open unbiased mind on this.
    Most if not all MP's contact the BDC manager by post. It would be very unusual for an MP to telephone him without any previous history between themselves.

    I only quote what are facts, and my opinions are based on my workings within the Civil Service. I try to see both sides of the argument - you have to consider how the DWP see things as well as how you see them. Unfortunately people see what is happening to them and totally disregard the pressures that the DWP are under at the moment - they are not miracle workers.

    The 70% figure I will leave open, as of yet I haven't had the chance to examine the stats.

    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  11. #31
    Basic Account Holder amianne Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    185

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by worried33 View Post
    Whats your answer as to when the evidence is sent, and the same evidence used for appeal and the decision is overturned, or are you refusing to believe that happens?

    Is there a reason the DWP cant request furrther evidence if they believe the condition qualifies but isnt backed up by enough evidence.

    Isnt that what the assessment is for to verify conditions people are putting on ESA50's?

    holes in your line of thought.

    If someome turns up to a medical, and then gets the ruling overturned then that doesnt say much for the ATOS process.
    Certainly not. Two people can legitimately have two differing opinions on the same evidence. It doesn't mean to say that one is wrong and the other is right. They just differ in their interpretation of it.

    The DWP are not responsible for obtaining evidence to back up or prove your entitlement. They will seek sufficient evidence that they believe is enough to make a decision on a claim.
    The responsibility of providing evidence rests clearly on the claimant.

    I think you have the role of ATOS & the DWP confused. They are not there to verify what you have put on the ESA50. ATOS's role is to provide evidence to the DWP as to whether you 'pass' any of the descriptors and how many points should be awarded for that 'pass'.

    The ATOS assessment is just one bit of evidence that the DWP will use, they will use what you have put on your ESA50 AND more importantly what medical evidence and reports you have submitted with the ESA50. Based on the balance of probabilities, the DWP Decision Maker will then decide.

    As I have said, there are many reasons why a Tribunal decision can overturn the original DWP one. It just doesn't follow that the DWP's decision was wrong.


  12. #32
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    worried33 Novitiate worried33 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,395

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by amianne View Post
    Certainly not. Two people can legitimately have two differing opinions on the same evidence. It doesn't mean to say that one is wrong and the other is right. They just differ in their interpretation of it.

    The DWP are not responsible for obtaining evidence to back up or prove your entitlement. They will seek sufficient evidence that they believe is enough to make a decision on a claim.
    The responsibility of providing evidence rests clearly on the claimant.

    I think you have the role of ATOS & the DWP confused. They are not there to verify what you have put on the ESA50. ATOS's role is to provide evidence to the DWP as to whether you 'pass' any of the descriptors and how many points should be awarded for that 'pass'.

    The ATOS assessment is just one bit of evidence that the DWP will use, they will use what you have put on your ESA50 AND more importantly what medical evidence and reports you have submitted with the ESA50. Based on the balance of probabilities, the DWP Decision Maker will then decide.

    As I have said, there are many reasons why a Tribunal decision can overturn the original DWP one. It just doesn't follow that the DWP's decision was wrong.
    The more I read the more I wonder what you saying, your posts directly contradict everything I have heard from other sources.

    When ATOS provide an opinion, it is rarely set asideicon for other evidence, whilst you make it sound like its treated along with other evidence as equal. Even that harrington guy made a comment on it saying it was weighted too heavily. The ESA50 is returned to ATOS directly, so the DWP dont even see it until ATOS have looked it over.


  13. #33
    Classic Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a contribution
    worried33 Novitiate worried33 Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,395

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by mattho View Post
    The problem is that people go to atos unprepared thinking the system is fair. It is not fair. You are asked a few questions and all answers are based on this. This is particularly true of mental health claimants. Even if you lived next door to the centre you would be penalized for going alone.
    and they listen to amianne maybe who is telling us all its fair.


  14. #34
    Gold Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Download our toolbar
    reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman Authoritative reallymadwoman's Avatar

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2007
    I am in
    South west
    Posts
    3,690

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    If someone appears to be contradicting absolutely everything that everyone else contributes and at the same time is not being at all helpful, then why respond and encourage more of the same?

    RMW
    "If you want my parking space, please take my disability" Common car park sign in France.
    Follows
    0
    Following
    0

  15. #35
    Basic Account Holder amianne Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    185

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by worried33 View Post
    The more I read the more I wonder what you saying, your posts directly contradict everything I have heard from other sources.

    When ATOS provide an opinion, it is rarely set asideicon for other evidence, whilst you make it sound like its treated along with other evidence as equal. Even that harrington guy made a comment on it saying it was weighted too heavily. The ESA50 is returned to ATOS directly, so the DWP dont even see it until ATOS have looked it over.
    All you have to do is read the Decision Makers Handbook which does say exactly what I have quoted. The ATOS assessment is only part of the evidence that the Decision Maker can use. Or maybe you think their own manual is wrong and the DM's are not following it's instructions? If you have evidence of this you should be reporting the matter to the DWP.


  16. #36
    Basic Account Holder amianne Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    185

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by worried33 View Post
    and they listen to amianne maybe who is telling us all its fair.
    No it isn't always fair. But as Mattho has said, people go into these assessments with the wrong idea.

    That isn't the fault of the system or the DWP or ATOS, that is down to the claimant for not properly understanding what the processes are. If they have difficulty understanding them, then they should seek help - it's all printed on the ESA50!


  17. #37
    Basic Account Holder sadone Novitiate sadone Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    521

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by reallymadwoman View Post
    If someone appears to be contradicting absolutely everything that everyone else contributes and at the same time is not being at all helpful, then why respond and encourage more of the same?
    Yes, quite......


  18. #38
    Basic Account Holder Slatted Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    May 2012
    Posts
    411

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by amianne View Post
    No it isn't always fair. But as Mattho has said, people go into these assessments with the wrong idea.

    That isn't the fault of the system or the DWP or ATOS, that is down to the claimant for not properly understanding what the processes are. If they have difficulty understanding them, then they should seek help - it's all printed on the ESA50!
    We needed a specialist report for a different matter, it took 9 weeks to get to us....we get sent ESA50 forms with tight deadlines so it is not always possible to give what has not arrived and, yes, the Report was chased up....

    The Specialist was an expert in her field and would lend the required weight to the information as she is treating my husband..but things cannot be rushed......

    In my personal case I mentioned that I was awaiting appointments that could not be brought forward and then took letters with me to the WCA....

    NHS etc go at their own pace and that is also a factor that is not always recognised.

    And the help is not always out there these days for those who really need it.....

    If only we had the back up for those in true need...


  19. #39
    Platinum Account Holder
    Help the CAG!!
    Make a donation
    Nystagmite Highly informative Nystagmite Highly informative Nystagmite Highly informative Nystagmite Highly informative Nystagmite Highly informative Nystagmite Highly informative Nystagmite Highly informative

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    6,698

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by amianne View Post
    All you have to do is read the Decision Makers Handbook which does say exactly what I have quoted. The ATOS assessment is only part of the evidence that the Decision Maker can use. Or maybe you think their own manual is wrong and the DM's are not following it's instructions? If you have evidence of this you should be reporting the matter to the DWP.
    The decision makers guide isn't always true though. The decision makers guide and DWP both say that if I use an aid, I won't have problems. No aids work and they never will do.


  20. #40
    Basic Account Holder Dilizjo Novitiate

    Follow Real_CAG on Twitter

    Cagger since
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    344

    Default Re: ESA Reassessment????

    Quote Originally Posted by amianne View Post
    No it isn't always fair. But as Mattho has said, people go into these assessments with the wrong idea.

    That isn't the fault of the system or the DWP or ATOS, that is down to the claimant for not properly understanding what the processes are. If they have difficulty understanding them, then they should seek help - it's all printed on the ESA50!
    Where in the ESA50 is it stated that a claimant has the right to have their assessment recorded? In fact where in any DWP/ATOS leaflets or documentation is that openly printed?



Viewing CAG on a small screen? Switch to the mobile version of the site

Reclaim the Right Ltd. - reg.05783665 in the UK reg. office:- 923 Finchley Road London NW11 7PE