Patricia Pearl - Small Claims Procedure - A Practical Guide


An excellent guide for the layperson in how to use the County Court - a must if you are intending to start a claim.

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BAILIFFS - The Law and Your Rights

Written by John Kruse, one of the leading experts on Bailiff Law, this consumer friendly guide is essential reading for anyone who comes into contact with a bailiff.

The book is easy to understand and clearly explains the rights a bailiff has, and also what they cannot do when collecting debts and repossessing goods etc.

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  1. #1
    Basic Account Holder mum2fletch Novitiate

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    Default DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    PLEASE I am in desperate need of some advice.
    I have a bit of ostrich with head in the sandicon syndrome... First I got a letter saying some one else had applied for registered keeper- was I aware of this- I responded with yes I did.. I thought it odd since I had sent them paper work saying I had passed the car on. when I got a letter telling me I didnt notify them I had sold the car I told the DVLA what I thought they could do with their threat of a 35 fine. The next letter said I now owed them 55 I told them I would go to watch dog cause they seem to be a feature company of that program for ripping people off.
    The letter I got after that was a court summons.
    I put it in the bottom of the drawer and didnt even mention it to my husband while I dwelled on what I should do about it.
    Now the months leading up to the 6th of June, have turned into a week to go.
    and Im really stressed out about it. I havent sought advice from any one and figure with this sort of time frame its not even gonna help to try and get free advice? on my court date I will be 37 weeks pregnant. I'd be lying if I said I needed this added stress.
    The only thing I have is a piece of paper from the DVLA to the guy I sold the car to saying his application for registered keeper is being processed.
    I have no proof I posted of the v5 is it?
    I have seen alot of people on here talking about just calling the DVLA and paying the fine? While I would hate to take his route on a moral ground wich I wanted to fight- I would be appearing in court alone, heavily pregnant and having to find a baby sitter for my toddler. Since I only sprung this on my husband last week he cant take the day off work.
    Has any one faced the courts? what is the process or requirements
    and is there ANY WAY I can get out of this now, last minute???


    If any one has any advice or information I will be so greatful for it


  2. #2
    Basic Account Holder millitant Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Your name and address


    The prosecutor
    DVLA
    XXX
    XXX
    DATE


    REQUISITION TO ATTENDXXX MAGISTRATES COURT ON XX/XX/2012




    Vehicle registration xxxx xxx

    Dear sir/madam

    I am writing in regards to the requisition sent to me to attend xxxx magistrates court on xx/xx/2012 to answer charges of failing to notify the secretary of state on change of vehicle ownership.

    I will be pleading NOT GUILTY on all charges as I consider I have no charges to answer.

    I am now informing DVLA that I surrendered the vehicle V5document to DVLA as required by law. The V5 was returned to DVLA by first class post.

    My responsibility ends as soon as I relinquished control of delivery to royal mail. I take it I do not have to remind you on Section 07 of the Interpretations Act 1978

    7. Where an Act authorises or requires any document tobe service by post. served by post (whether the expression "serve" orthe expression " give " or " send " or any other expressionis used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed tobe effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containingthe document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have been effected at thetime at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post.

    In effect what this means is that by correctly addressing an envelope, affixing a stamp to cover the necessary charge (as is required), andby placing the item in a Royal Mail Mailbox, I have fulfilled my responsibility to notify DVLA AS REQUIRED BY STATUTE LEGISLATION.

    May I ask other than royal mail, how I am able to deliverthe V5 document to DVLA.

    DVLA even put their address and postcode on their documents so I must take it that is the normal method for exchange of correspondents.

    I will now move onto more details on my responsibilities as to the V5 document

    Detailson the V5 state -
    'Once we know about the changes, you should receive an acknowledgement
    letter to confirm that you are no longer responsible for the vehicle. If you do
    not receive the letter within 4 weeks, please phone 0300 790 6802.


    Can you please advise under what Statute Legislation I am lawfully obliged to contact DVLA if I do not receive any such acknowledgement or correspondents from DVLA.

    The question of the legislation on contacting DVLA and statute legislation has already been judged in various county courts and has been found in the defendants favour. This matter has been discussed in great lengths on BBC TV Watchdog.

    I will be providing case details to the court if needed

    It has been confirmed through Freedom of Information Requests that DVLA do lose mail for which I will be laying before the court as evidence.

    I must also inform the prosecutor that I am fully aware of the Paul Kennedy case.

    MR Kennedy claimed he was wrongfully convicted of the same offenceI am being charged with.

    Mr Kennedy appealed his case to Chelmsford Crown Court at 10.00 am on Friday 9th September 2011.

    DVLA prosecutors at Swansea withdrew its cause of action and offered no evidence to the crown court.

    No doubt this was to stop a precedence being set as case law being it was a court of appeal and binding on all equal and lower Courts.

    I can assure DVLA that if I am summoned before themagistrates and convicted, I will be seeking leave to appeal to the crown courtbeing that magistrates are normally lay magistrates and not familiar withstatute legislation.

    I trust this letter is explanatory in its context and reserve the right to show this letter in court if needed.

    Yours sincerely


    THE LETTER ABOVE IS THE ONE I DID,SEND TO THE PROSECUTOR ON THE REQUISITION FORM


  3. #3
    Basic Account Holder mum2fletch Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Do you think it will be enough with such limited time left cause it is literally 4 working days with the bank holidaysicon included.
    Thank you very much for that letter I plan on sending this afternoon!


  4. #4
    Basic Account Holder Raykay Informative Raykay Informative

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    There have been a couple of cases on this forum, by Paul Kennedy and Number6, where the DVLA prosecutor has bamboozled the magistrates into a conviction on the grounds that the document was not 'delivered'. Paul Kennedy appealed at Crown Court, DVLA did not contest the appeal, Number6 is considering an appeal.

    As in millitant's post, the instructions on the V5C are to send the document to DVLA by post, so it is covered by the Interpretation Act.

    I would emphasise in your letter that the wording in the Interpretation Act 'whether the expression "serve" or the expression " give " or " send " or any other expression is used' clearly also covers 'deliver', and as DVLA are an executive agency for the Department for Transport, if the document was sent by post to DVLA, it was delivered to the Secretary of State as required by regulations.



  5. #5
    Basic Account Holder mum2fletch Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    RayKay I have had a good read now of the posts you mentioned, you seem incredibly knowledgeable with the legalities of the system(most of it way above my head) as much as I would love to take the DVLA to hell and back, I wont have the time for this with a baby only weeks away and an active toddler.
    If I called and asked if I can pay the 55 just to be done with it, would they accept that or would they still want me to o to court? then I would plead guilty again just to be done with it.


  6. #6
    Basic Account Holder Tony P Informative Tony P Informative Tony P's Avatar

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Just a thought -
    If Number 6 lodges his appeal to the Crown Court (and I hope he does) could the OP ask for her case to be adjourned pending the outcome of the Appeal?


  7. #7
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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by mum2fletch View Post
    RayKay I have had a good read now of the posts you mentioned, you seem incredibly knowledgeable with the legalities of the system(most of it way above my head) as much as I would love to take the DVLA to hell and back, I wont have the time for this with a baby only weeks away and an active toddler.
    If I called and asked if I can pay the 55 just to be done with it, would they accept that or would they still want me to o to court? then I would plead guilty again just to be done with it.
    Sadly, I can understand why you would want too do that. But if you do, the DVLA will continue to do this too people. Its a good little earner for them !!
    What court are you being summond too ?


  8. #8
    Basic Account Holder mum2fletch Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Wimbledon magistrates. like I say for me its a case of Ive left this far too long, not wanting to face it. now its come and Im going to be sitting there very pregnant with no one for support Im being a bit of a wimp now...
    I just dont need the stress of it. I'd rather pay the fine- knowing I'm NOT guilty. but with no proof other than the other guys letter saying his papers are being processed there isnt a whole lot I can do


  9. #9
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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by mum2fletch View Post
    Wimbledon magistrates. like I say for me its a case of Ive left this far too long, not wanting to face it. now its come and Im going to be sitting there very pregnant with no one for support Im being a bit of a wimp now...
    I just dont need the stress of it. I'd rather pay the fine- knowing I'm NOT guilty. but with no proof other than the other guys letter saying his papers are being processed there isnt a whole lot I can do
    Hi,

    You need no proof, its for the DVLA too prove in court that you did not send it. Which I am pretty sure can not be done.

    All the evidence you need is posted on here and most of it is posted in this very thread I would go to court with you if you needed the support, but I am sure you can do this they are not as scary as they seem once they know your not going too back down. The DVLA are alike to the playground bully, stand your ground and they back off and go for another victim.

    As I say above, all you need too show is that you posted it. Now I am sure you had someone with you when you posted it...... Didnt you
    So you have proof you posted it, first class post. So once you post it in the post box, its deemed as served or sent.




  10. #10
    Basic Account Holder mum2fletch Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Am I gonna be put infront of a judge and civil servants and what not? and can they still make me pay their 'maximum 1000 fine? the truth is I did post it with some one- the guy I sold it too thats why he's been so good in giving me his letter the DVLA sent him. I WISH I had found this forum earlier. I thought I was the only one this had ever happened too. its turning out Im one in hundreds.
    I just dont know if I should go looking sorry for myself and look scared(should come naturally ) or if I go with my really bad attitude which got me no where before and all my raging hormones! lol


  11. #11
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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by mum2fletch View Post
    Am I gonna be put infront of a judge and civil servants and what not? and can they still make me pay their 'maximum 1000 fine? the truth is I did post it with some one- the guy I sold it too thats why he's been so good in giving me his letter the DVLA sent him. I WISH I had found this forum earlier. I thought I was the only one this had ever happened too. its turning out Im one in hundreds.
    I just dont know if I should go looking sorry for myself and look scared(should come naturally ) or if I go with my really bad attitude which got me no where before and all my raging hormones! lol

    Yes it will be a magistrates court, usually with three magistrates (might be one in this case not sure though). There will be the prosucuter from DVLA who will try and baffle the judge and you, but you need to just remember the basic facts.

    You posted the V5 to DVLA as instructed, there is no requirement to use a signed for delivery service.
    There is NO requirement for you too chase up the DVLA if you do not hear from them, that is just a request and is not written into legislation.
    The DVLA lose lots of post, (there is a Freedom of information request on here with all the data on it - its linked so you can use as evidence)




  12. #12
    Basic Account Holder mum2fletch Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    so I wont have any one fighting my case but me? I plan on printing off the post from millitant cause I think thats written so well. Im so sorry for all these questions I just want to be prepared for this.
    Thank you to every one who is commenting and providing much needed help and advice. I just said to my husband Im gonna fight these bast*rds about this now. I did what I was told to. I'm a little house wife I have no need to be trying to rip off the secretary of state!! it was such a rubbish old car this is just far more than its worth!


  13. #13
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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by mum2fletch View Post
    so I wont have any one fighting my case but me? I plan on printing off the post from millitant cause I think thats written so well. Im so sorry for all these questions I just want to be prepared for this.
    Thank you to every one who is commenting and providing much needed help and advice. I just said to my husband Im gonna fight these bast*rds about this now. I did what I was told to. I'm a little house wife I have no need to be trying to rip off the secretary of state!! it was such a rubbish old car this is just far more than its worth!
    Thats the spirit

    Yes it will be you fighting your corner but its not as scary as it sounds as the DVLA muppet wont be allowed to bully you or pressure you too much tbh, they are generally kept on a tight lead.
    The dvla proscuter will try to get you too settle before you go into court as well, so beware .... this is another little ploy they use I predict they will prob play on the fact your pregnant and "dont need the stress, bla bla bla"

    BUT YOU HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG !

    Even IF found guilty, which is a possability as we have seen lately its not game over there, you request leave to appeal at crown court and appeal it. They will back down at that stage, as proved already.

    If you want support I am sure we can get someone to attend with you, I am free but do not know the full in's and out's.


  14. #14
    Basic Account Holder Tony P Informative Tony P Informative Tony P's Avatar

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by 2ltr16valve View Post
    Thats the spirit

    Yes it will be you fighting your corner but its not as scary as it sounds as the DVLA muppet wont be allowed to bully you or pressure you too much tbh, they are generally kept on a tight lead.

    If you want support I am sure we can get someone to attend with you, I am free but do not know the full in's and out's.
    Thats the spirit too!
    Maybe those with the 'ins and outs' can brief you.


  15. #15
    Basic Account Holder EmmaB1980 Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    This is a similar story to my boyfriend. He has just realised he also has a court date on 31/05. The problem he has is that he bought the private sale motorbike, we didn't have room at our property to store so he stored this at his friends. In the meantime we have found out that his friend has moved and not notified us of his new address and won't answer calls or text messages. We have been summoned as my partners friend has since sold the bike and the new owner has applied for a new logbook. My partner still has the receipt and logbook for the bike, does anyone know where he stands when he goes to court on Thursday?
    Thanks
    Emma


  16. #16
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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmaB1980 View Post
    This is a similar story to my boyfriend. He has just realised he also has a court date on 31/05. The problem he has is that he bought the private sale motorbike, we didn't have room at our property to store so he stored this at his friends. In the meantime we have found out that his friend has moved and not notified us of his new address and won't answer calls or text messages. We have been summoned as my partners friend has since sold the bike and the new owner has applied for a new logbook. My partner still has the receipt and logbook for the bike, does anyone know where he stands when he goes to court on Thursday?
    Thanks
    Emma

    Hi Emma,

    You should really have started a new threadicon but I will reply here and the site team will most likey move the posts

    In short, your BF needs too report the bike as stolen asap, and get a crime number. He then needs to notify the DVLA that the bike was taken without consent from storage and sold, thus you can not be held accountable.

    Plead not guilty as you can not be held accountable for failure to notify for something you have not sold on.


  17. #17
    Basic Account Holder EmmaB1980 Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Thanks for your reply, didn't know how to start a new threadicon and can't watch the tutorial as stupid work blocked the website.
    That's what I thought however; when he did report it to the Police they didn't give him a crime number just told him to try and contact him and that they would pay us a visit.....to which they haven't. Still no contact from them and address not known. I'll get him to go back to Police Station this afternoon as we are conscious that the court date is 31/05 (2 days away).
    Thanks


  18. #18
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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by EmmaB1980 View Post
    Thanks for your reply, didn't know how to start a new threadicon and can't watch the tutorial as stupid work blocked the website.
    That's what I thought however; when he did report it to the Police they didn't give him a crime number just told him to try and contact him and that they would pay us a visit.....to which they haven't. Still no contact from them and address not known. I'll get him to go back to Police Station this afternoon as we are conscious that the court date is 31/05 (2 days away).
    Thanks
    In that case, when he goes back to the police station he MUST get the police to note the theft from the date in which he first contacted them, and log the report as in todays date ! Typical of the police I seem to be reading lately !!


  19. #19
    Basic Account Holder canute Novitiate

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Hi mum2fletch, we've just successfully defened ourselves against the same charge, all the advice given on here is good advice.

    One word of caution however, on our first court appearance (the case was adjourned to trial) the DVLA prosecutor completely accepted that we had posted the V5 without any arguement at all (obviously aware of trying to defend against the Interpretations act) which was a surprise, but they went on to baffle both the magistrates AND (importantly) the Clerk to the court with the "chase it up in 4 weeks" nonsence.

    You must make it clear that there is no statutory legal requirement to "chase up" a notification and that anyway, you can not chase up something within 4 weeks if it may take up to 4 weeks to be posted. This is a "courtesy" service by the DVLA and nothing to do with law.

    Also be aware of the DVLA trying to settle out of court, this means they fear they will lose and are trying to cut their losses.

    Good luck.

    If you want to quote a case where the DVLA have lost in magistrates court, DVLA v Emma Hanlon, Case Number 471200111684, Brighton Magistrates Court.


  20. #20
    Basic Account Holder Tony P Informative Tony P Informative Tony P's Avatar

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    Default Re: DVLA failure to notify- week till court date

    Quote Originally Posted by canute View Post
    Also be aware of the DVLA trying to settle out of court, this means they fear they will lose and are trying to cut their losses.
    They are also always keen on an 'Out of Court' settlement because the whole amount goes to DVLA's own bank account.

    Whereas, if the Magistrates impose a fine, it never goes to the DVLA, but to the Central Government - although DVLA may be awarded some costs.

    They are, yet again, showing their incredibly low scruples as an Agency of Public Servants, by clearly wanting money for themselves instead of justice prevailing.

    This is the Secretary of State for Transport's area. Maybe the Secretary of State for Justice/Lord Chancellor should have a word in his ear.


    PS. Emma and Canute. Well done and thanks for sharing.



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